HBO's Watchmen - The Spoiler Thread

Spoilery discussion of HBO’s Watchmen series, by Damon Lindelof. Don’t read unless you’ve watched the show or you don’t mind being spoiled.

Yay. Now I can talk freely.

Watchmen saw what Game of Thrones did with its biggest star and said, “Why wait until Episode 9?”

So, what’s the deal with Veidt? Presumably Irons is now the aged Vedit. But there’s newspapers all around in September 2019 saying that “Veidt Officially Dead.” So is he still alive? Or is it a flashback? And what’s with his “servants”?

(Random aside: the female servant is played by Sarah Vickers, who I love in Endeavor.)

Also, some really interesting theories flying about who Louis Gossett, Jr is playing, as well as Frances Fisher.

Racism is bad and this show is too, but at least we get … Don Johnson sings to us! WTF who is this for? This isn’t Watchmen. It’s a soapbox written by an idiot. And the Reznor soundtrack does not match the material. Its no fun at all, but it does have the magicbox at the end. Just like Lost!

For fans of his musical career, of course.

I’m guessing Hooded Justice.

What do you think the message is? Because it seems more complex than “racism is bad”.

I’m actually not sure what the messages is, but it’s only one show in.

Seems like he’s in some kind of secluded environment, and his servants are robots or something. Maybe just his mind continues to exist in some kind of suspended animation.

Is this actually from a story in the graphic novels or is this just taking characters and the setting and making a new story?

I don’t know the source material enough to really know what’s going on. Is this set years ahead of where he movie ended? Never read the comics, just saw the movie.

This is a new story.

This takes place in present day, in the world after the comics (which took place int he 80’s).

One thing to note, is that it’s based on the comic world, not the movie one. While the movie was pretty faithful to the comics, there were a few notable differences.

The biggest one is that in the comics, Veight didn’t try to convince people that Dr. Manhattan attacked the cities.

In the comics, Veight had a bunch of scientists and artists create a giant genetically engineered squid thing (telling them that it was to be used in a movie), put a psychic’s brain into it, (then killed all the scientists and artists), forced the squid to perceive nothing but human suffering and crap for years, and then used Dr. Manhattan’s power of teleportation to teleport the Squid thing into NYC.

Since it occupied the same space as some buildings and stuff when it teleported in, this caused a massive explosion, killing the squid thing (and a ton of people). At the moment of its death, the squid psychic brain sent out a burst of psychic projection, causing millions of people to have their minds flooded with horrific images that the squid had been exposed to its whole life, which basically caused them to die from madness.

Instead of unifying humanity against Dr. Manhattan (which really, makes no sense, since he’s essentially omnipotent and if he wants to destroy the earth he can, trivially), Veight was unifying humanity against this imagined “alien” threat. Giant squid aliens, teleporting in and exploding!

Typing that all out, it’s kind of easy to see why they streamlined that into what they did with the movie… the squid scenario was kind of convoluted and weird. Ultimately, changing it as they did in the movie didn’t lose anything important.

The first episode of the show had some weird reference to this, as at one point it rains squid… although they are tiny squid, and they just fall from the sky and then dissolve pretty quickly after splattering all over everything. Not sure what that was about.

Gratuitous squid shot:

Ok, thanks. It’s interesting that the superheroes in the first episode didn’t seem very super. They just seemed like well-trained people in costumes that stood out. There was no one I saw with powers like Veight had.

I also wonder why the racists adopted Rosarch’s mask as their symbol?

Oh, any idea how Alan Moore feels about this series? Probably not happy.

I haven’t watched the show yet (and don’t care about spoilers), but this is faithful to the comics, too. Dr. Manhattan was the only one with superpowers in there, though Veidt was pretty much the (fantastic) upper-end of human capability, being able to grab a bullet out of the air.

I imagine the racists adopted Rorschach’s look because he was a heavy right-wing nutcase in the book, so they’re projecting that 40 years into the future.

While he wasn’t a racist, Rorsarch was very right-wing. The first page of the Watchmen comic has this quote: “Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn’t realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don’t tell me they didn’t have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody hell all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers…”

That’s just page 1. The newspaper he sends his journal too is also very fringe and right-wing.

Not hard to see the message, and his image, being co-opted by racists.

Plus, keep in mind that his crazy-ass journal was likely published by the fringe right-wing 'zine The New Frontiersman at the end of the comic. I imagine that’s exactly the crowd that would gravitate towards that magazine and its crazy conspiracy theories. They took on Rorschach’s story as part of that paranoid culture (ironically the diary story is the truth) and made him their hero.

This is likely why you get the quick bit of “Do you think the alien squid attacks are a government hoax?” when Looking Glass is interrogating the 7th Cavalry guy in the pod.

So what was the stuff that rained from the sky in the first episode? Everyone just kinda dealt with it like it’s something that happens a lot.

It’s been almost 35 years since the giant alien squid attack that Veidt orchestrated to fool the world. You have to assume that if all the gov’t can do every now and then is drop some baby squids out of a high-altitude plane to remind people of the aliens, then it’s probably become an annoyance more than a real threat.

Squid. As per the giant squid in the original comic. But did you also see the giant ANATOMY OF A SQUID poster on the wall during the classroom scene? (There was another poster of FOUR IMPORTANT PRESIDENTS. The portraits? Washington, Lincoln, Nixon, Redford).

Technically, it’s 7th Kavalry. As in KKK.

Loved the first episode.

What did you guys think of the Blade Runneresque, left wing right wing, politically charged Rorschach test scene. THAT WAS SO AWESOME! Not. What if you shat on a flag? What are good things about your mother? Lindelof in early Lost when he could write good character slice of life, that was good… but whenever he gets all politically charged… he becomes worse than a Lifetime soap opera. He isn’t subtle and the show starts feeling like flaccid melodrama. I am hoping the show picks up, but this episode was uneven and sloppy (even the action scenes were tepid). AND it did not feel like Watchmen at all. And this was supposed to be the new Westworld?!?

I thought there already was a new Westworld.

Lots of really cool info in here which fills in the 30-year gap.