Hearts of Iron 4 announced

Thought this was good to know as I get ready to dive in this weekend.

The games on hold for me until they patch. Just way too many bugs. First they screw up Surviving Mars, and now this. Fortunately, unlike Surviving Mars, I can revert to an older version of the game.

That’s usually my approach when it comes to a major expansion, wait for a hotfix or two. Reading the subreddit I didn’t get the impression it was too buggy but I wasn’t looking that closely. What sorts of bugs are you running into? I can tolerate some kinds more than others.

It’s 81% / Very Positive on Steam so was hoping it wasn’t too rough.

I think this thread is a good summary of the supply issues.Smoke and Mirrors supply system (No step back) | Page 8 | Paradox Interactive Forums
Harbors, and Air transport Overpowered
Hubs much too expensive
Overall system is very confusing. Shadow Empire supply had better documentation!
Lots of armies are in low supply at the start of the game.
The game wants you to spread your troops out evenly but of course the front system concentrates them at the point of attack. Result a supply fubar that requires microing to fix.
Logical things like following the railroads don’t work

Not wanting to plan rivet transportation, it seems alright, with some future rebalance.

Is there some text-based explanation of the detailed math of the supply system? I’m looking for things like why only 3 supply is getting delivered to Leningrad (and thus starving divisions) when the tooltip says that the railroad can deliver 35 supply.

NO.
I got a half-hearted promise to write something up.


seldon said:

My go-to source for information about this game all Paradox games is the Wiki. Right now the Wiki says noting about Railroads, supply hubs, horse vs trucks.
May I suggest you guys assign someone to update the wiki ASAP. I’d like to see an overview, a detailed explanation, and finally a strategy guide.
How to fix supply problems. Along with the malus comparison I previously asked for.

Arheo

As a rule of thumb, don’t worry too much unless you have divisions that have a red exclamation mark next to a red low-supply icon.

We don’t usually update wikis ourselves (these are community curated), but I’ll see if I can get some exact info put down somewhere.

As of today, I see nothing new either on the wiki or a sticky post on the forum.

Thanks. “Don’t worry too much” isn’t much of a replacement for explaining critical game mechanics.

it is far cry from Mohawk game’s Leyla response to my “Great game but you need better documentation post”

[

Leyla_Johnson](Profile - Leyla_Johnson - Quarter To Three Forums)

Strollen

Jul 2

You have my word that we will improve. I am taking everything said here and will do something with it. Tom is someone we listen to closely as well, we would be fools not to, and hopefully, as you know us by now, we will improve the experience for the players.
It is not like the frustrations expressed here were things we do not think we should work on, we are actually right now on an open thread on our internal chat, Slack, discussing these exact issues.
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate and tag us for these issues, and also for trusting that we are here and we are listening, and trusting that we care. My fear is not being able to do all the things possible because they might not be possible for us to do, but if they were consider them done.

Then those words were backed by action, a manual, lots of detailed answers on the forum, and terrific set of designers notes.

Now to be fair the HOI IV team, has done good job with giving us a preview of what to expect in NSB.
The tank designer is pretty much what expected, although I didn’t expect a 50-100% increase in tank costs. The Russian focus tree, has become too complex, although typical of the last couple of years of DLC.

But supply has pretty much broken the game for me. This was not a reassuring answer. I couple this with Paradox breaking Surviving Mars, and I understand the last EU DLC was also a piece of shit.

I’m excited about Victoria 3, but my confidence in their ability to execute is really low.

The latest one was fairly well received from what I read. The previous one (Tinto’s first release) was a wreck, though.

I haven’t had a chance to fire this one up yet so haven’t wrestled with the new logistics myself. The expansion sits at Mostly Positive on Steam, though, and Paradox fans aren’t usually too shy about venting via Steam review of things aren’t up to snuff. Hopefully those that have grokked it they can get to updating the wiki regarding the new supply system. I don’t know what you’re supposed to do if supply isn’t working as you expect and there’s little in the way of documentation. Lack of docs is a pet peeve of mine in the modern era whether it’s games or various un-or-barely documented frameworks people put out.

I might wait a bit for them to work on bugs and documentation, but at some point I do think I’ll take the plunge on this DLC. The new features interest me a lot.

Actually, I’m tempted just to get the Bundle and get everything. I think the last expansion I got was Man the Guns; nothing since. I dont have the radio expansion, or the armor packs, the speeches pack, the eastern front planes pack, La resistance, the eastern front music pack, or the Bosporus pack. Are any of those clunkers that i should avoid, or should I just get em all?

Bosporus just contains focus trees for countries in the region (Greece, Turkey, etc.) so it can be skipped if you’re not interested in playing those countries.

Thanks. Are you getting No Step Back?

I’ve purchased it but haven’t had a chance to dive in yet! I feel like with a major rework like this one contains, it’s often best to wait a little before really diving in. Mostly, though, I’m just wrapping up some playthroughs in a couple other games before giving my attention over to No Step Back.

So it seems like the answer to my previous question is that there is a limit to how much supply can be delivered to a particular province from a single supply hub (in addition to the limit of total supplies that can be delivered to the hub). The per-province limit drops off with distance and terrain from the hub but there is a limit, even if you are sitting in the hub province itself. Higher railroad level, better roads and more trucks raise this limit and increase effective range of the hub.

Also, more hubs within range have their own limit. So you can have an army sitting on hub Alpha and not be able to delivery enough supplies, but building another hub Beta four provinces over can boost the amount you can deliver to the Alpha province.

Also, it seems like underlying values have been tweaked since I last played: I have to stack more in one province to run into supply issues, using the same save.

Yup, it is the type of silliness, that really frustrated me. If you got 100,000 troops all camped out with 5 miles of railroad station it is actually easier to supply them then, if you have 20K, 40 miles north of the station 20k 20 miles north 20k at the station 20K 20 miles south and 20K 40miles south. But as far as HOI is concerned the 100K at hub will be in poor supply and the troops spread out will be worse.

Doesn’t it make sense that it’s easier to supply a larger force right at the railhead? The last 20 miles is the hardest to navigate in a supply chain, no ? But I may misunderstand, as I haven’t bought the expansion yet.

That’s would make sense, but the game mechanics are the opposite. So if you have a large force camped at the railhead, they can starve. If you spread the out among the railhead the and 4 neighboring provinces, you get something like 3-4x the total supplies delivered, and they are fine.

It also would be ok, if this was Gary Grigsby turned-based game like War in the east and you could manually place your divisions. But with the front system that’s really hard to do, especially if you say wanted to concentrate all of your armor divisions in couple of provinces to punch hole in the enemy lines.

Despite my misgivings of some aspects of the new supply system, I think it works fairly well in practice. It’s another layer of things to think about in the map, and which way the railroads run can really dictate your plans.

I find it tends to make sense to lunge from one supply center to the next, trying to follow a path that will leave things connected. Sometimes the connections are much more favourable to the defender than the attacker, and you’d actually have to build new track in addition to repairing track and supply centers.

You can also feel the cases where that lunge is a bit far, like the conspicuous lack of supply centers between Rostov and Stalingrad. Combine these aspects with the seasons and the terrain and I think it gives things a more historical feel. It may be my imagination, but I think it also gives the USSR a bit more staying power as you can’t just drive deep into the interior without quickly running out of fuel.