Here there be Tower Defense discussion


Here’s another option for you on Hero’s must die. I used the same setup as Left_Empty the first few times, and I was successful, but it took many tries. I was determined to find an easier setup.

Here's the shot

(Ignore my loadout as I just fired it up to put the starting blocks in place)


We should break out the deep game specific strategy stuff to a new topic IMO.


Thanks I’ll give it a whirl next time I try that level.


Well I couldn’t get yours to work, but I did pass it using a slight variation, putting it on easy & had 4 lives left, so I’m done with that stupid level. The next one was such a breeze, I’m just left wondering why on earth level designers do that shit. Seriously I was so close to giving up on this game - but you showing me it can be done was the boost I needed so thanks.


I’ve just gotten to this level and failed. So whilst I’ve yet to complete it, I would say one thing about your setup that I’ve seen from other levels: Try and keep crates away from railroads. The explosive carts will eventually destroy them.

Did you unlock that curly weapon near you’ve placed near the bolt gun before you played this level?

Yeah, we need a Dungeon Warfare thread!


I started one.

Regarding the crates, on levels without heavy dwarven warfare, you can upgrade them for 150 to repair them (and improve their life by 1 points in the process). Works as much as you leveled up their tier, but it is enough for the mild damage caused by carts in my experience. But yes, in this level’s layout, it is easier to put them just a little back, oops!


I think you mean the demons? Honestly, I can’t recall when they are unlocked. Now that you mention it I don’t think demons were present on this level initially. You don’t need them.


Is it possible to move dw posts intothe new thread to save them?


It is possible but I was told @tomchick doesn’t like it when people move things. It’s up to @telefrog and @stusser to ask and see if it’s OK.

(I personally don’t see what the big deal is for mundane discussion housekeeping tasks, but I was told it is verboten.)


We’re talking about 2-3 posts, people could cut and paste them if they are so important.


@LeeAbe we need a Gemcraft thread. I’ve got 190 hours into it, on my 2nd playthrough I got bored of the mechanics after clearing Wizard Level 2,190 and running endless for over an hour. Even so, I’m tempted to do a 3rd playthrough as my memory is fuzzy when things start to get easy. (when you get amps / black gem).

As you have stated it’s your favorite, I think you should do the honors!


I purchased Gemcraft the other day due to the recommendations. Only dabbled a little bit but have no idea what I am doing. I suppose there are optimal gem combos. I still do not grok how to know which gems can combine.


They merge and carry on all the traits - so any combination will create a merged gem. So for example, mana leech gem will hit one creep, but if you combine it with a slow, when it hits you get mana and the creep is slowed. Then combine that with a chain-hit and now you can hit more than one creep at a time, getting mana from both of them along with slowing both of them. You sacrifice a bit of power with each different gem type, so don’t go crazy.

The important thing is to look at the types of creeps and build towers to counter them. Some have a lot of armor? Use Armor tearing up front to whittle down the armor, Better yet, combine mana-leech with armor tearing and you whittle armor + get mana. It’s always good to have mana leech up front because you want to leech from everything you can to build up your mana pool - as this is the currency to build new towers & create new gems.

My biggest suggestion is to get used to the hot-keys. D = duplicate, G = combine. So for example, if you have a gem in a tower, just mouse over it, hit D and the duplicate will show up in your inventory. Then hit G and click on the tower and it will merge the two gems. This saves a tremendous amount of clicking & dragging.

The biggest problem with gemcraft is that all the guides show all this stuff that you can’t build because you haven’t cleared the fields to get the towers & gems and they reference “once you’re wizard level 1,000 or above”.

Don’t get confused when you are given many gems on one field that you don’t get on other fields. Once you find that gem, it will show up on all future maps - your starting loadout will increase.

Just have fun. It’s actually quite challenging to figure out the combinations / pathing to your best benefit.


Ha, thanks @Tman, but I don’t have a enough to say about it to start a thread. If I was actively playing it I would, but it’s been 6 months since I last played.

@geewhiz there is a optimal way to make gems, but it is much too time consuming to do by hand. The people who are into it use a separate program to make gems perfectly. I didn’t want to go that far and found a video that went over the basics and made my gems that way. Basically, a combination of gems is more powerful than a sole gem created at that level. So combining two level 1 gems would be better than generating a level 2 gem from scratch. But when you start combining colors, it gets complicated. Once you get some time in the game and decide you like it, my advice would be to pursue a crafting tutorial or watch some Youtube videos.

That’s what I love about the game, you can go crazy and make perfect gems, or you can just come up with a way that works for you. You can pretty much play the game any way you want. For instance Tman said he has finished the game once and was playing with endless mode. I never finished it, I was concentrating on getting the achievements (there are something like 190 of them) and started doing the puzzle levels before I burned out at 170 hours played. You make the game as complicated and difficult as you want it to be.


@Tman & @LeeAbe

Thanks for the bountiful comments! I appreciate it very much.


When I launched it yesterday, there were 419 listed on Steam alone!


Yep, sorry you are correct…not sure where 190 came from. They are a ton of easy ones, but some of them require you to be really high up and have everything unlocked. Not to mention to being pretty creative. If you are into chasing achievements this is the game for you (as well if you like lots of things to unlock).


I wanted to relate my subjective experience with both Dungeon Warfare and Gemcraft (though I have only dabbled in Gemcraft at this point in time). I am putting this in the main TD thread so as not to bog down their own respective threads.

Dungeon Warfare
I have been playing two campaigns at the same time on my PC and iPad. I believe the game is a lot easier to play in iOS since the UI is simpler. You can click on a wall or floor tile and the UI lets you choose witch Tower type to select. If you have enough gold it is lighted and not enough gold it is subdued/dark. I have a very bad neck injury from my Steel Mill days so holding the iPad in my hands with my neck pointed forward adds wear and tear. I have been using an iPad stand to great effect, though playing the game for a long time my arms get tired constantly updating the map with my choices.

The PC is harder to play in the sense that you will probably find it easier using the keyboard shortcuts (rather than constantly clicking the toolbar). I realize that we have all been using keyboard shortcuts forever in many games but as I get older and with so many games being played concurrently, I find myself not able to remember all the shortcuts. I wish they had used the same type UI in the PC version. Click on a space and select with the mouse I believe would have worked well too. The PC has the advantage of being able to speed up the waves to 4x whereas only 2x on the iPad (not sure if there is a way to do it on the iPad and I am just missing it). I mention this because the waves can take longer to play on the iPad without the 4x speed being available.

It does appear that there are some slight differences between the two versions or at least it feels like it. I think different maps appear in a slightly different sequence. I did not do a point by point experiment to verify but it does seem that way.

The main thing that both the PC & iOS versions both have in common is that when I get to the map, Shallow Grave, I get stuck without anything else to do (unless I am supposed to grind my level higher to make more choices appear).

In my minds eye Dungeon Warfare is the blue collar game. I can learn it as I go though I do have to search for hints on various maps here on QT3 or watching a youtube video. Gemcraft on the other hand feels like the white collar type. After reading @Tman’s awesome thread on Gemcraft I feel like I have to go to Tower Defense college before I start to play!


It’s interesting that you bring up how the different input methods work cross-platform. I loved the kingdom rush series so much I went out & got it for my phone, but after a few rounds, I gave up as I was having too much difficulty with my fat fingers. I played a lot on a tablet while travelling on a long vacation, but otherwise, I avoid phones & tablets for games because I like my PC.

For hotkeys on Dungeon Warfare, do you realize it’s just 1,2,3…9,0 for the towers in the order you load them up? So the first tower is always 1, the next is 2 and so on. This is the only hot-key I use for quick tower placement.

Your described preference is what I like to call the “Defense Grid input mechanism” - clicking the space, then clicking the tower you want. I loved that so much when I dabbled in writing my own TD game writing in gamemaker, I replicated that mechanism. It is wonderful and I applaud your good taste!

Per the devs on Dungeon Warfare - they are making Shallow grave optional and also easier. That level sucks so hard it’s ridiculous.

Lol on gemcraft - it really is an easy game. You should just jump in and do 10 levels - they go by really fast, then you can re-read my stuff and the other beginner guides and it will seem a lot less imposing.


One thing I forgot to mention is on iOS when you go to place a tower it auto slows the game whereas on the PC it still runs full throttle.

I actually use a Logitech G13 for keyboard shortcuts and do know that it is the various numbers but if you have been playing the iOS version it is hard to switch to the PC version. Plus I have been playing a bunch of TD games (Dungeon Warfare, Gemcraft etc) so I cannot remember which key does what without looking at my little paper diagram (and on the PC I have have to remember to hit the P button since it does not pause/slow down automatically like it does on my iPad. I am certain that this would not be a problem for everyone.

I usually like to play games on my PC like you do but sometimes it is fun to have a decent game on the iPad because I can sit with the family while watching TV and still play a game if I want to (or when I travel for work).

I have been concentrating on DW but when I seriously start playing Gemcraft I agree that it will become easier.

I am also hoping to start Dungeon of the Endless soon (I never fully played it before). I remember starting to play and then stopped for some reason. :)