The next time you think Nutso People only appear on Internet message boards, consider this guy. I suppose the way around the free speech issues is to have legilation already on the books against whatever stupid ideas people occasionally come up with from time to time, as is the apparently the case here.
You know what always kills me about holocaust deniers? They go to these great lengths to say that the Holocaust never happened, mount these huge defenses of the Nazi regime that fly in the face of logic, and they do it because they hate Jews. You’d think they’d be proud of the Holocaust. You’d think they’d be Holocaust revivalists.
I think it’s like pornography for them, something best enjoyed in private.
Flights of fancy such as Holocaust denial are excursions to such great heights of storytelling that I fear even my Hephaestian forged suspension of disbelief would fail to support.
This is an example of stupidity’s triumph over evil. Jailing Irving, for his pseudoscientific racist tripe, says everything a radical muslim ever wanted to hear about western principles of free expression.
This whole case is insane. Irving is a racist wackjob who became increasingly unhinged through the 1980s, but come on. He never incited hatred of Jews, urged people to commit violent acts, or really did much of anything aside from write dodgy books, give speeches for vaguely fascist groups questioning the legitimacy of the Holocaust, and rant like Archie Bunker occasionally in public.
If Austria can jail Irving for what he wrote (and Hitler’s War isn’t a hate-filled book by any stretch of the imagination; it’s flawed history written with questionable motives, but it features some keen observations about how Hitler conducted the war and lots of info dug out of archives and taken from interviews with Hitler’s associates – it remains a very important book about Hitler and the war), then the Islamists have a point about the double standard in Europe when it comes to supposed intellectual freedom. And I love the Austrians here. Actually serve with the Nazis, you get elected president. Write something that could be construed as praising the Nazis and give speeches to that effect more than 40 years after the war, you get thrown into jail.
Giving Irving any press is stupid, as is legitimizing him as some kind of threat by charging him with hate crimes. He’s been regarded as a loon since the early 1980s. Putting him on the front pages just gives idiots more reason to lionize him and more grounds to claim he’s another victim of the global Zionist conspiracy. This twit should have been left to die in obscurity.
Yes, as a prominent dumbshit, I must agree. It certainly is a bizaare turn of events for people who are identified as Liberals to legislate a true version of events, and offer punishments for different ways of thinking or belief. I must say, I am very and quite often wrong about a number of things, often, insultingly so. If my stupidity were to become a criminally punishable offense, well, I…
I’d have to burn this whole place down.
Yes, but was the denier a juggalo? If so, is this sentence a hate crime?
I should add that I’m referring to the 70s edition of Hitler’s War, the one I read in university when studying German history, and not the batshit 90s one where Irving deleted all references to gas chambers and death camps because he had come to believe that they had never existed.
Bear in mind, Toddy, that the Lipstadt/penguin trial unraveled primary source fabrication from way, way back with Irving. I don’t think anything by him is given much academic shrift at all any more, excepting obvious stuff like recorded interviews with nazi record keepers and what-have-you.
Hate crimes are well defined.
edit: dammit quat, you beat me to it!
Just to make it clear, he was convicted because he had claimed that there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz in a speech he made in Austria back in 1989, not because of anything he has written.
Criminalizing being factually incorrect is worse than denying the Holocaust. I guess 1984 isn’t required reading in the Austrian school system.
No, you don’t understand. It’s hate speech about a hateful subject that Austria would much prefer be forgotten altogether. Totally naughty, and therefore totally punishable.
You know, it takes a lot of time and effort to counter bullshit with facts, reason and the truth. It’s simpler to just throw bullshit in jail, and a far more effective way to make sure no-one ever believes it again.
Especially if you put them in the wrong cellblock.
Considering the quite unique historical circumstances, like, you know, WW2 and the actual fucking holocaust, that brought laws like this into existance in Germany and Austria I can’t say I’m too shocked. As for the radical muslims, establishing the European stance on the matter in the face of the anti-semitic propaganda that radical muslims hold dear should be a good thing, the sort of statement of values that people here on the board seem to have been clamoring for ever since those bloody danish cartoons hit the fan.
How much did the jews pay you to say that, Kalle?
So what happens if scientific evidence shows that the 6 million number may be off? does this mean that even with legitimate reasons to check numbers scientific inquiry into this subject is verboten if it means the numbers were less than 6 mill? Would they be just as upset if it were more? If I lived in Austria would I get jail time for questioning the 16 million who died in Stalins purges? How about Pol Pot? Idi Amin? no?
Why did I think Austria was a bastion of free thinking with an advanced political and social climate? I can’t get over how anyone anywhere would think this guy getting jail time for his opinions is somehow justified.
I get ill just contemplating it.
Is this the same David Irving who wrote the Book of Lists back in the late 70s/early 80s? That was actually a good book (of a sort). Nothing to do with Nazism/Anti-Semitism/Holocaust - just sort of a twisted version of the Guiness Book of Records, in a way.