What, specifically, was derivative? Is it really just the fact that it’s some sort of post apocalyptic world? Even though the apocalypse was different than other apocalypses?
I’m genuinely curious as to what exactly makes this derivative.
The best I can reconcile what I just read with my experience of Horizon [next line] Zero Dawn (an awkward mouthful of weird until you see where the plot goes) is that I felt the same after the initial wow fell away. For a bit. So from hour 8 to 20 or so I had a similar take away as this review. However that all turned on its head from the midpoint on to finally leaving me rather moved by the experience by the time the credits rolled. I was actually full of reflective thought as the credits rolled even up to their Marvel like post credit teaser.
I enjoyed the game and played it through without switching to anything else while I was playing it, but I did find the story annoying. Anyone can see how they started with the concept, primitive humans fighting robot dinosaurs, and then created a weak story to shoehorn around the concept. I mentioned my biggest problem with the story in some other thread here and that single plot point still annoys the sh** out of me. You don’t give the keys for your last car to the drunk that wrecked the other one. It deserves a 3 out 5 just for that.
I am one of these types that read every email, check every soundbyte, look behind every rock. To me the artists made a amazing world here. Two worlds, really, one is the primitive medieval one, with different believable cultures, primitive religions and beliefs. The other is the ghost of what the world was before the apocalypse, we (trough soundbyte) receive the message from voices that died in terror, about their world and their problems.
How you uncover the story is slow. Theres no a single revelation, theres many, lots, each one give a even more detailed image, increase the deep of the story.
At the university I use to write artificial life. One time I teamed with a guy that helped me, creating low level rendering libraries for me. With that boost I made even better artificial life. I totally believe in a group of people tryiing to save life itself from human errors by creating something that is a machine, but also have many of the properties of life.
Yeah. I remember strikingly the emotional impact of the world when I found (and then started to seek out) audio files scattered in the last third of the game. They were NOT your usual FPS level of throwaway audio noise collected simply for an achievement. Similarly reading the text that was buried in your inventory from certain collectibles (the audio tour ones especially–just not the audio part) brought the tragic tone to painful focus.
Over the ocean, some old perverts engineers are at work on it.
I am merely half-joking, it is probably interesting to associate the constant deathwish for humanity impregnating Japanese thought and their fascination for robots.
You got me! I never even played the game! I was trying to trick you and if only @Ryan_Kelly hadn’t called me out for having no idea what the main characters name was, I might have gotten away with it. I wonder if I can get away with it in my Neer review.
But thanks for just implying I didn’t play the game instead of calling my insane. That’s progress!
Well, keep in mind you’re talking to someone you’ve diagnosed as insane and take my comments with a grain of salt, but I thought I wrote a review that specifically praised the robot dinosaur ecology. Have you tried reading that review? It might get you less riled up.
I’m surprised I have to spell this out, but there’s so much more to it than being “a girl with a bow”. I’d have thought most folks who enjoy videogames and sci-fi would know this. But, sure, let’s take a look. The whole Hunger Games opening invites comparison to Katniss. I mean, seriously, that’s Hunger Games, straight up, complete with the other competitors being variously sympathetic or bad guys. The idea of being the only one who can save the world because of a secret inside her is very Ellie (Ellie is also very derivative, by the way). The relationship to an adoptive father figure is also Ellie and Joel. The plucky heroine who scrabbles around with impossibly powerful fingertips is very Lara Croft. The red hair is straight-up Brave.
But what ultimately makes the writing in this game so bad is that’s all they’ve got. It’s derivative and nothing else. In fact, her “mother” figure, Elizabeth Sorken (sp?), is arguably becomes the main character by the time it’s over, because all that’s left to do is unpack the pointless details of all this silly rogue AI stuff using flashbacks. Aloy basically steps out of the picture once she’s unlocked the doors to the final Exposition Dungeons. So many audio logs. I mean, uh, holographs. Whatever you want to call videogame storytelling at its level worst. “Show don’t tell” has never been so egregiously misunderstood!
Look, there’s nothing inherently wrong with derivative. The problem is being derivative and nothing but. For instance, Laura in Logan is basically Hit Girl from Kick-Ass. But she’s so much more thanks to the script, her place in the storyline, and the actresses unique take on the character. Melanie in Girl With All the Gifts has that same “only her blood can save the human race!” trope, but she’s unique for being a zombie who’s incredibly bright, who cares deeply about humanity, and for how she upends the whole Pinnochio idea of wanting to become a real boy. Merida in Brave is derivative of Disney princesses, but see what kind of cool new stuff they do with her independence from her parents, and the consequences thereof. Tropes are fine to use for storytelling. They suck as substitutes for storytelling.
But E/Aloy is a blank spot onto which Guerilla Games slaps a few things they’ve seen elsewhere. When you strip that stuff away, all that’s left is incredibly bad writing and a pretty decent voice actress delivering plaintive bad dialogue. I can start linking to cutscnees if you like. I’m sure there are plenty on YouTube.
I can rarely stomach that “audiolog” approach. It’s such a lazy way to tell a story. “Hey, player, if you want the whole story, sit around and listen to this audiolog.”
Horizon is so poorly paced for this as well. If you’ve going to do that sort of audiolog and flavor text thing, I think you need to design spaces for that in the game. Guerilla Games peppers those exposition dungeons with audiologs and then expects you to sit there and listen to them. Sorry, Guerilla, but your writing isn’t that good.
By contrast, I loved how that audiolog approach worked in Metal Gear Solid V. Listening to those tapes during helicopter rides was a real pleasure because a) great writing, and b) what else are you going to do during the helicopter ride?
Except that they aren’t trying to kill each other, and it’s not for the amusement of others.
I mean, it could potentially be derivative of other depictions of a tribal rite of passage, like the opening of Conan the barbarian, but there isn’t really much in common with the hunger games beyond the most superficial “girl with a bow in a competition”.
Except that the relationship is totally different. It’s difficult to get into the details without spoilers, but essentially everything is different beyond the most superficial element of “father figure and girl”. His motivation for caring for her is totally different, the nature of their relationship through the game is totally different, the fact that you are generally viewing things from her perspective rather than his is totally different.
So climbing mechanics are Lara Croft? That’s nuts, dude. So assassin’s Creed is derivative of Lara Croft?
And holy shit, red hair? So having a character with hair is derivative?
You are taking superficial similarities, and then ignoring everything beneath the surface and attaching it to one of the handful of other strong female characters in popular culture. I think perhaps some element of this is driven by the fact that so few such characters exist.[quote=“tomchick, post:56, topic:129887”]
So many audio logs. I mean, uh, holographs. Whatever you want to call videogame storytelling at its level worst. “Show don’t tell” has never been so egregiously misunderstood!
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I think maybe this is where the disconnect is. For me and others, the Audi loss we exceptionally well done. I actually bothered to find all the collectable junk, which is something I literally never do. But the story of what happened was cutting, at least to me.
But if that story wasn’t compelling to you, then I can see how it wouldn’t come together.