Just got back from Washington, D.C. While I was there Sharpton and others led a march and demonstration to demand (Sharpton’s word) reparations (i.e., lots of money) to today’s African-Americans for slavery.
So - what do people think about the legitimacy of such a claim?
Will never happen. It is another good oppurtunity for Sharpton to get more press, however.
There are almost too many problems with the idea of reparations to list.
-tracing everyone in the country’s heritage to see what % of slave they have in them
-does every taxpayer pay via the government? what about folks who’s families have moved here in the last 100 years? what about families from the Civil War era who fought against slavery? A portion of these people’s taxes would be going to reparations for something they were in no way involved in.
-what about all the programs that were inacted to help African-Americans “catch-up” (affirmative action for one). Do these count for nothing?
-the horrific race divisions that will erupt and/or worsen as a result
-do you file a claim or does every African-American get them?
The fact that this solution to any inequities left between whites and blacks is still being discussed is insane. It will never work and is just a ploy for face time by Good ol’ press lovin’ AL.
I realize there is still discrimination and some imbalances, but reparations is a step in the opposite direction IMO.
And I’m part Native American… We we’re killed off and our land was stolken from us. Where does it end?
You all owe me money for the crimes you have commited against me and my peeps.
GIVE ME MONEY!!!
:x
Ugh!! He is an idiot! Reparations or else! What is he going to do with his 500 to 1000 staunch supporters? Annoy the piss out of people even more? Any power he has is in getting media to show up and if it is a peaceful protest he probably will not even get TV time.
Never say never. Jesse Jackson successfully strongarmed Toyota using this very tactic about 2 years ago. Toyota apparently feared a nationwide boycott of their cars if they didn’t give in.
Really, strongarming is what it is. We are supposed to be beyond blaming the son for the sins of the father. In our case it’s more like SOME of our great-great-great grandfathers. This is the land of immigration, after all. How many of our ancestors were even in America beofore slavery was banned?
I will give a hearty AMEN to that brother. The Native Americans got screwed worse than anyone. If only there were a couple of obnoxious, inlammatory leaders in the Native American community, maybe they could get in on it, too. Or at least get a little exposure to what they have been through and are still going through.
Like Chris Rock said, “Nobody got it worse than the Indians! You never see a group of them hangin’ on the corner. It’s usually just one guy.” BTW, that quote is no where close to being word for word.
Yep. His Rainbow whatever it is called has “strongarm tactics” in it’s mission statement. Jesse threatens company’s behind the scenes and then gets hiring practices altered and substantial donations to his “coalition”. The companies do not fear the boycotts so much as the bad press that will appear when Jesse shows up behind a lecturn/pulpit in front of the company’s headquarters.
It is similair to a protection racket if you ask me. Except it is protection from having their name drug through the mud whether the accusations Jesse may make are well-founded or not.
I do not think Sharpton has nearly the power or savvy to get anything done. Also, AL strongarming the Federal Government is kind of like Joe Crackhead strongarming John Gotti, Jr.
Jeez Lackey, what have you become? Talk radio? Just spew out a loaded opinion without regard to facts or even linking to a factual story? Sharpton wasn’t even there! It was good old Louis Farrakhan. Your controversial posting privilages are hearby suspended! :)
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2002/08/17/reparations/index.html?x
“While Farrakhan and Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., did attend, many major names in the black civil rights movement were absent, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton.”
It’s less of a story if only the weirdo is in attendence and the more mainstream black leadership begs off… isn’t it? It’s a complicated issue. I’m generally against reparations myself, bacause it’s a slippery slope, but I acknowledge that the Civil Rights is only 50 years old!!! and that lots of rich white families owe their riches to a foundation of slave labor. So, let them march, it’s what makes this country great.
In that case, um…uhhh…me still no likey Sharpton. Maybe just insert Farrakhan where I said Sharpton. (j/k)
Reparations is an interesting issue, but still not a front-burner issue. I live in the DC area, and even local news had the story buried between the latest burglary and the water-skiing squirrel.
The reparations activists like to point to the reparations awarded Japanese Americans and Holocaust survivors, though these parallels are stretching it quite a bit. Only those Japanese Americans who were actually interned were compensated, and the Holocaust reparation were limited to survivors of the horrors themselves (or, in some cases, their children).
The reparations activists, to their credit, aren’t advocating a 100,000 dollar cheque for every African American, but want a lump sum devoted to the community building (education, investment, business subsidies) to redeem the failed promises of emancipation. There are more effective ways to do this, though, and phrasing it as reparations deducted from the taxes of all Americans turns more people off than it attracts, even within the African American community.
Personally, something about looking at slavery as an issue of unpaid labor strikes me as a little weird. Would reparations heal the wound of slavery and Jim Crow in America? Hardly.
Sorry, Bub, but it sounded like Sharpton when they introduced him, and it looked like him from where I was standing (which was a decent ways from the podium.) And then when I got back to the hotel they quoted Sharpton on the news and his opinion on this and he did make the quote I produced. It didn’t occur to me that they would quote Sharpton on the D.C. news that evening if he wasn’t there. :wink:
It was actually an interesting event to attend (albeit accidentally.) I had the kids with me, and it was interesting at dinner letting them develop and express their thoughts on the issue (I just asked “probe” questions and let them talk.) I assume from a strictly legal POV it would be a tough case to make: how do you prove that a person today has been financially hurt because their great-great grandfather (assuming you could make the link) was brought here from Africa in the 1700s and early 1800s? If you can prove that, who do you prove is responsible (and thus should pay?)
I read an interesting article by a black professor a few years ago that I had forgotten about until I read a history of the founding fathers recently (and they discussed some of the same points.) Even back in Jefferson’s time there were some who felt slavery was wrong. However, they had no clue and there was no plan for how you would incorporate a huge number of former slaves into society - obviously a problem that was not adequately solved before the emancipation. And (so I’ve read) there were no nations in the world at the time that were truly mixed societies of significantly different races.
Before someone jumps on me and thinks I’m saying that slavery was OK or that the slaves were better off as slaves - I’m not. What I am saying is that freeing the slaves was much simpler than coming up with a plan that would effectively integrate them into society, and that much of the racial strife and discrimination was thus very predictible and inevitable.
Jeff
Apologies Lackey, I interpreted your “I was there” as “I was in Washington DC” not “I was literally at the rally”. That TV program was probably quoting Sharpton in a “why weren’t YOU there?” kind of way. It’s hard to take a rally like that seriously when only the most controversial spokesman attends - and the rest … don’t. So, yeah, the story becomes “Why didn’t the mainstream black leadership attend?”
I think there’s a lot of validity to the reparations argument. I mean, they didn’t even get the “40 acres and a mule” as promised… but the “why are you blaming me for something my ancestors did?” question looms pretty large too. I commend you for how you dealt with it with your kids. Make them think, rather than react.
Personally, I think the white devil owes the black man something for his trouble… like a lifetime supply of 30-day AOL cds.
“Git mah brothers on the NET and only then shall they be FREE!*”
Honestly, folks… I think it’s stupid shit like this latest stunt (and that big “Affirmative Action” fiasco) that keep the brother man down. It gives us honkeys a nice juicy target to point a finger at and say “see… those fuckers just want to take our shit, our jobs, and breed the white man out of existence.”
Of course, this works both ways… because you do get some attitudes on either side of the fence. Go down to your local mall some time. Now, people all realize there are educated, professional, downright nice folks out there who just happen to be of a higher melanin content in their skin. Does that make you different? Nope. However, the manner in which you conduct yourself, and the values you hold and act upon publicly certainly do. So, next time you see a member of “The Bling-Bling Gangsta Posse” please take a moment to remind him of the disservice that he is doing to his self, community, and race. Be ready to run.
That being said, I do find it somewhat excusable for black people to have certain differing “ethnic standards”. However, there is absolutely no tolerance in my heart for the true evil in today’s society… the wigger. Yes, those skinny white pukes who would be a respectable nerd except that instead of buying computer hardware they got a dose of stupid and instead invest in black underbody neon and giant tail wings on their honda civics. Seriously, folks, does anybody here think that a Cessna wing looks fashionable dominating the rear third of a japanese rollerskate? Can the shit fly? Does the shit go ANY faster with that hoopie contraption bolted to the back? Do the bitchez find them irresistable in their Bling-Wing Riceburner 2000? With the red “R” decal applied, of course.
God dammit, I think we should pay the black man $5 every time some suburban honkafella bratt drives past him on the street. In fact, I think he should beat that $5 out of his skinny white Tommy Jeans wearing ass. After that, slap his anorexic pierced belly Abercrombie shirt wearing ho on her ass and make her drive her boyfriend home to his SUV driving soccer mommy.
What the heck ever happened to the black gentleman’s sense of style? Where IS the black gentleman anyway these days? It’s not that he isn’t around… it’s just that this oxygen thieving trash is so much more visible that they obscure the view of the traditional values of the american of african descent. I say bring back the Caddilac. Bring back the alligator shoes and the pinky ring. The green and gold dinner jacket, made so famous by Bishop Don Magic Juan. Black people look GOOD in that shit. It’s no lie. They pull off pimp threads with STYLE, and look damn classy doing it.
So, if we have to give them money, then by god lets at least politely ask that they spend it on the stuff that WORKED for them in the past.
well I have to say well put Asz… But let me point out a few points here:
What about those Whites’ ancestors that actually picked up a gun to fight for the slaves freedom?
What about those folx that worked on the underground railroad? Hell why do you think there are so many of our melanin boosted borthers named McGee? Not because they are Irish. Trust me, they do have red hair and I have yet to see a black man drink Guiness without flinching and saying “Shit this stuff tastes nasty” (incidentaly thats the same thing I say about that piss called colt 45).
Thomas Jefferson pointed out that the destruction of Society starts with the redistribution of wealth. Isn;t that what we are talking about here? Every man (don’t get your panties in a wad women I mean you too.)is born equal what you do with your life is up to you. If this is true then paying for the sins of our ancestors means we are not born free.
Why should I pay for the sins of my fathers or my forefathers? Should it be right for me to be able to pop a cap in someones ass because the fucker’s grandfather cut me off at a red light? Or should someones son go to jail for his great grandfather because shot and killed someone? or lets make him a eunich due to a rape charge in his past.
I am not prejudiced nor am I racist ask anyone I know they will point out that I hate everyone equally. Why hate someone for the skin color when you can find out deep down that they are a asshole. Hate them for that.
BTW sorry about the spelling on the post above…long day…no sleep…
I don’t think we should laugh too derisively. Before September 11, they were pretty much a shoo-in to have this debated on the floors of Congress in open forum. There is actually some support there for this bone-headed issue.
In the paraphrased words of George Carlin:
“I was never a slave and I never owned one. And neither were you, so shut the hell up, already.”
It’s an interesting property rights problem. It’s actually not to hard to work out the “stolen value added” slaves produced (hey, the GOP wants to eliminate the estate tax; why wouldn’t they want the full value to pass between generations here?) and then compound it forward at the GDP growth rate to today. That’d be big enough that punitive damages are kind of decorative.
“I will give a hearty AMEN to that brother. The Native Americans got screwed worse than anyone.”
Their getting some of it back here in Arizona at least with the casinos(probably in other parts of the country too).
Well, heck…I might as well chime in.
I have known some really great people of every race in my time, but I’ve known a handful of not-so-great people, too. And I must say that it really bothers me when I see black people who are so quick to shout “prejudice” – and, in fact, who are themselves very prejudice against white people – that they are incapable of looking past what happened all those years ago, and incapable of not suspecting everyone of racism…Except themselves.
I went to high school with a guy who was half black (is there a PC way to say that?), and he was constantly accusing everyone around him of being racist. While I acknowledge that somewhere in his lineage there was probably someone who was a slave – and, quite possibly someone in my lineage who had slaves – that doesn’t mean that I owe him anything, personally. Nor does it mean that I, myself, am racist. And I got so sick of hearing him say “You don’t like me because I’m black” or “You’re just saying that because I’m black” or “That teacher has it out for me because I’m black” when, in all reality, it was just because he was an annoying, whining pain in the butt. And I’ve known far too many people with this attitude. (And, my wife being an MTv junkie, loves watching the Real World, and I see so many people on there like that, too. sigh It just reminds me how widespread this attitude is.)
I’m not trying to excuse people for keeping slaves, or anything. And, if anyone were alive today who actually were a slave at one point in his life, I would be all in favor of him receiving reparations.
But I can see no reason for people who are two or three generations removed from the slavers giving money to people who are two or three generations removed from the slaves. Just seems ridiculous to me.
And it pains me when I see black people, who are supposedly fighting for equality, constantly bringing up the past, and setting themselves apart as “different” by their attitudes.
My reaction to this is much like my reaction to Danny Glover’s impassioned speech concerning why he’s illegally harboring a bunch of Chinese sweat-shop workers in his posh, suburban-Californian pimp shack. “I’m freein’ slaves! Like no one did for my ancestors!” And when Jet Li comes on and starts kung-fu kicking Danny Glover in his pendulous, nut-brown gut, I can only clep clep and brah-voe.
Because, hello?!?!?! America voluntarily ended slavery over a century and a half ago. It wasn’t like the blacks rose up and forced us to give them their freedom, and we’ve been sullenly unrepentant all this time: we did it because everyone besides the most in-bred hicks in their Mississippi mud shacks knew it was wrong, or went along with it as a financial necessity. It is a generalization, but the point is the same: if five generations of freedom isn’t good enough you, a check for a thousand dollars seems a poor substitute.