That’s “heating, venting, and air conditioning”, not “hacking, viruses, anarchy, and cracking”. ;)
So I’ve got a good heater in the apartment. It keeps the place warm on those mildly chilly nights without a hitch. However, there is an extremely annoying issue with the installation. While it is running, the unit exhausts water or some similar liquid. As in normal houses, there is a long, moisture-proof hose running from the heater to the side of the building so that it can drip away its exhaust. Normally, these drips go into a drip-pan in some wall over by the laundry room or some shit where you don’t notice.
Mine goes into the bedroom wall RIGHT ABOVE MY FUCKING HEAD. And it isn’t a soft-ish drip like you’d get from the sink. The drip sound is loud. You can hear it in the other room with the TV on. It is louder than when you snap your fingers. It is loud like someone is tapping the wall with a small ball-peen hammer. It (honestly) sounds like the drip is being forced under pressure out of the hose, rather than just falling, and it doesn’t sound like it’s hitting metal but perhaps a wooden wall stud or something.
I’m a big pussy when it comes to going into the attic space, because it’s an apartment and I’d never be able to repair any missteps so that they couldn’t notice. But I did go up into the hatch and visually verify that it is this black (in a non-racist way) rubberized moisture hose running from the heating unit to my bedroom wall. It’s about 20’ away from the attic hatch which also means clever ideas like putting a webcam on a 5’ stick and peering down to where the hose goes from the attic into the wall won’t cut it. I toyed with the idea of building an RC car to drive over to it, but decided against it.
Anyone have any idea how I might stop the noise? I’m thinking of cutting a 1" tall by 3" wide (or so) hole in the wall up by where the sound originates (it’s up by where the wall meets the ceiling) and getting a good look. I’d probably just stuff an old washrag in the wallspace in there so that the drops hit the cloth from now on, if that would do it; and I can patch up a small hole in the wall like that so it won’t be noticed.
Pre-emptive strike: no, the apartment management won’t fix it. Fine by me, it’s a chance to use my tools, and I’ve got just about all the tools a man could have without a garage.
I don’t think I’d put a rag in there. Wouldn’t that be a great way for mold/fungi/all kinds of stuff that’ll screw with your allergies to grow?
If you have the skills, why not just run the hose down to within a half an inch or so of the drip pan (and perhaps have it run down at less than a 90 degree angle?) Doing so should lessen the noise without causing significant problems in the HVAC system or promote the growth of gnarly stuff in your walls. Total cost should be under $5, since all you need is a few feet of hose, a hose clamp or something similar to connect the hoses, and some scissors to cut the hose itself. Actually, even easier might be getting a length of something plastic (like some zip ties tied together or a long swizzle stick or something) to bridge the gap between end of the hose and the pan. As long as you cut the distance the water is falling, it should lessen your noise problem – and routing it directly to the pan should also help (as opposed to it hitting a stud or something, which could also help nasty stuff growing in the walls).
I suppose you could line your walls with Dynamat, too, but that seems a bit radical. :)
As always, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
I have steam heat, and it pisses me off. It makes little “pffft pfft pffft” and gurgle gurgle noises when it runs, which invariably wakes me up. It does have the major plus of being free, but eventually I decided I couldn’t take it anymore, turned it off, and bought an electric heater for the six nights per year that my computer equipment doesn’t adequately heat my apartment.
Shit, hadn’t even thought of that. All I want to do is destroy! destroy! and here you come along showing me how building is better than tearing down. Heheh. No seriously though, great idea. I’ll probably do this instead.
I think the drip pan is how it gets from the heater to the outside. I’m in an 8 unit apartment building (four 1st floor and four 2nd floor like one big block). Instead of running 4 sets of hoses everywhere for the top units, they just put in a short length of hose for each unit’s heater and run it into a pan. Now, in fairness, I’ve never had something like this noise before and I’ve lived in all kinds of 2nd floor apartments. So I’m thinking something just got a little kinked up in this one and I’ma gonna hafta use my tools to get fixin’.
I used to have steam heat in my old apartment years ago. I loved it. The little hiss was white noise - helped me fall asleep. And unlike traditional furnaces, it didn’t dry the air out and make your throat dry.
I’ve got a new-ish house now and they don’t do that kind of stuff anymore, but I’d gladly trade for steam heat if I could.
if you are willing to get up there I got the best least cost and minimal work solution.
Get a piece of thread/string and “fasten” it to where the drip start and drop the other end in the pan, now instead of dropping, your drip will run down the thread into the pan and from there to the magical land of aircon drops…
Using this old thread because the title (if not the content) is appropriate.
Our ~50 yr old fairly standard suburban house has what looks to be a ~25 year old 80% furnace and a mid-90s(?) 10-SEER, 3-ton a/c. Ignore for the moment the need to calculate the real sizing requirement…
Having a repair call this afternoon because the system blower stopped starting. Hopefully just some big-old capacitor needed to start the thing, but we want to be at least minimally prepared to make an informed decision if we’re faced with the immediate need to replace stuff.
So I downloaded a USEPA excel calculator and plugged in the relevant numbers, including a local online quote for 13-, 14- and 16-SEER a/c units (Goodman, which I would probably avoid, but at least it gives a general idea about local costs).
Comparing the three new units to each other there seems to absolutely zero cost-saving reason to go with anything but the lowest efficiency unit. And nothing but a >$2000 lifetime cost penalty to replace the old 10-SEER unit with any new one.
Do those conclusions fit the experience of folks who know more about it than I do? I guess I expected more savings benefit to higher efficiency. Any other hidden cost savings I likely overlooked? At some point the old a/c will be untenable because of the coolant, but there is no reason to think it will need a recharge any time soon.
Got the blower fixed - but we’re still looking at the decision about when to replace the aging system. And I’m still disappointed to learn that (apparently) there are no actual money benefits to going with a higher-efficiency option.
I replaced an old gas furnace with a new heat/AC forced air unit about 5 years ago, and my experience was the same as yours. In fact, the vendor (I went through Costco because they got an absolutely huge discount for me) said the same thing: you might save a tiny bit of money on the higher efficiency, but not enough to offset the upfront difference. Its mostly a “feel good about the environment” thing, apparently. Though one thing to keep in mind: does your city or state offer any sorts of rebates/subsidies for higher efficiency units? For a while DTE was offering such.
I was under the impression that the higher efficiency units were often better built and just plain better at doing their jobs as well, but I have no idea where I got that from.
I watched a bunch of videos on youtube from installers back in the day. There are a lot of opinions floating around.
I did a costly repair on my aging system about 2 years ago to extend this very decision a few years. When I get a new unit I’ll have to do outside/inside and heat pump/furnace as well, so figure anywhere from 5K-8K or so. My HVAC guy explained it thusly:
A higher efficiency heat pump means two things. Less cycling to cool, less unit to cool the same area. The former is your energy savings over time. The latter is important, as it could completely put you into a smaller sized unit to do the same cooling job you are doing now. So less replacement cost if so.
Without numbers, it’s tough to say much. You’re basically looking at upfront cost versus projected ongoing savings. In turn you can divide the projected annual savings by the upfront cost and calculate a payback time (in years), or a % return on upfront investment or whatever. If your overall electric and gas bills are quite low (mild climate, say), then the payback #s may not be attractive. But for a lot of folks they are. There may be tax credits available (federal, state, etc) and/or utility rebates to offset some of the upfront cost.
Other considerations include: How long do you expect to live there? Will newer units require less maintenance, be significantly more reliable, and/or have a longer expected lifespan?
Note that there’s probably more potential for efficiency gains on the A/C side versus the furnace side. It’s been a while so I’m not SURE the calculations below are the right way to do this, but I kinda think they are:
Say you have $1000 in annual A/C-related electricity costs, and $1000 in annual furnace-related natural gas costs. Say you’re contemplating going from 10 to 16 SEER on the A/C, and from 80% to 96% on the furnace.
(Again, double check the stuff below - I’m not sure this is right):
A/C projected savings:
$1000 * (1-10/16) = $375/year
Furnace projected savings:
$1000 * (1 - 80/96) = $166/year
Of course, if you live in Vermont, the furnace is likely relatively more important, and if you live in Houston, the A/C is. I think (not sure) in general, in the USA, heating costs are a bit more than cooling, but obviously it’s regional. If you’re trying to estimate your current costs, compare natural gas & electricity bills for summer versus winter. (That’s not going to get you perfect numbers, but it’ll get you in the ballpark…)
Two years ago, I replaced both the furnace and the entire central A/C unit.
Faced with the efficiency question, when I saw the up-front cost difference, the choice, for me anyway, was easy, as I had to finance the whole thing. Low efficiency. I just wanted something that worked at that point, as temps were in the 90’s and my compressor had finally completely died. The old system was from 1984.
So I was expecting a bit of savings, but not much. I’m happy to say that even my lower-efficiency (13 SEER, which was the minimum allowed by law in 2015) A/C system has saved me a ton of money already during just the past two summers. Maybe a 25% electricity drop over my old unit.
Also, my gas usage with a new furnace also went down significantly as well. I mean, we’re not talking earth-shaking savings here, but my monthly payments on the new furnace and A/C are $131 for five years, and I figure I’m on average offsetting that figure by $30 to $40 per month, so hey, even replacing old stuff with low-efficiency new stuff can help a lot.
Also, I’ve always wondered how finicky high-efficiency equipment of any kind can be, such as engines and A/C units. In an engine for instance, I would imagine any little thing going even slightly wrong would drop your power and efficiency more markedly. And I’m wondering if an ultra-high efficiency A/C unit would require more frequent coil cleaning or filter changes, or something like that. Also, the high-efficiency units I’ve seen all seem to be friggin’ huge compared to the regular cheaper models.
Mind if I ask who you went with for that? I’ve heard of some great deals from specific lenders for things like that, many with zero interest for a considerable period of the loan. The specific one my neighbor told me of was something akin to a home projects credit card with, of all lenders, Wells Fargo. It gave specific interest free periods as well as low interest for certain items, and an HVAC replacement was one of them.
Turns out - the blower isn’t really fixed and we would need a new control board for the 20-something-year-old furnace (“if we can find one” says the hvac guy). So back to shopping for a furnace during a heat wave…
I haven’t looked at furnace technology in a long time. Turns out that basically anything other than a crap unit to put into someplace you rent out is going to be somewhere in the 95 - 97.5% range, so there is pretty much zero energy cost saving to be had by buying a high-end furnace. The $$ difference come down to features - fancy blower motors, “2-stage” vs “modulating”, the ability to somehow reduce humidity in the summer without actually running the A/C unit (I have no idea how that works…).
I’ve had that replacement. The control board was an easy find, for my Rheem anyway. The coil, not so much.
Easily enough, it is a dehumidifier built into the unit prior to the blower. So air that goes through your venting has been dehumidified. It can be controlled at the thermostat usually, so you can turn it off in colder months.
Don’t mind at all. It’s just like you described, but with Synchrony Bank. And yep, it’s a credit card I can use exclusively with that one HVAC company. And because all my stuff is new now, I haven’t needed to call them for anything since then.
They had a 0% option for 12 months (ha! I said)
5.99 for 36 months
7.99 for 60 months
I think there was a 9.99 and a 12.99 option too, but those options seemed ridiculous, between the length of time and the total interest. So I struck the best balance I could with what I could “afford”. I had just had my heart attack and bypass surgery, and was suddenly deep in debt from being out of work for so long. But still, I couldn’t see going longer than 5 years. And now, two years later, I’m somehow still not bankrupt (in fact my credit score went from “Excellent” (801) to merely “Good” (705) I’m sure due to the rising credit card debt - Hey, I expected worse… So maybe it was a good choice after all. At the time, I think I would have signed anything they put in front of me.
