I understand the need for cdkeys

29.99 its on DVD only from what I have seen.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m almost willing to buy it again on DVD just so I don’t have to dick around with the what, 7 disks now?[/quote]

No, no. I meant, how much is SecureROM charging for digitally marking each CD with a unique key?

I don’t know, Roger. I just came across the information a few weeks ago.

Not having three cd keys =)[/quote]
Drat. Owned by the bloody obvious! I am not sure if the game industry itself ever looks that far into the future.[/quote]

Apparently not, or a system could’ve been made where certain cdkeys applied to certain combinations, thus allowing one key per package. I mean, after all, it’s not like people didn’t know there’d be packages sold later on. So it would’ve made sense to have certain types of keys which were applicable for multiple combinations of software, as well as the typical key per, as is now used.

Also, it’s a master server that validates keys, right? So you’d only need to have patched the master server to allow certain keys to work for groups of product.

29.99 its on DVD only from what I have seen.[/quote]

$24.99 @ Fry’s.

I wonder if it’s available for download?

Yeah, but the point is, those CD keys are kind of like my penis; the lengthiness is just overkill. You don’t need that many potential combinations OH MY GOD WE MIGHT RUN OUT OF THEM! THEY WILL GET HAXORED IF THEY ARE TOO SHORT!!!ONE!! Sure, okay. Let’s go with 20 digits, okay? Yeah, fucking 20 is enough, right? But, not too much…?

Meanwhile, scientific types figger that, assuming a modest 36 possible choices for each digit (non-case-specific letters and numbers), it would take a cracker working on a ten digit passcode about, oh, a little over 1000 years to break it. Moore’s Law notwithstanding, I think he’d give up after the first couple decades.

Ten; man, that’s half. Two five-character strings, instead of fucking five fours. We could compromise at 15 if some of you nervous Nellies want your Windows to store a null appendage and keep those L0phtcrack monkeys out, but whatever.

It’s not quite comparable with finding an encryption key or a password though, since there’s far more than one valid result. A high-use system would have to permit at least millions of valid keys. But you want an even bigger invalid keyspace, since you don’t want people to be able to create ‘valid’ keys that collide with purchased keys just using random data.

It has to be self-verifying, since you’re not forced to go online and validate it, so some of that data is going to be a checksum or such. That also means that there’s probably some pattern to the key, and that the pattern can be deduced by debugging the hunk of code that does the verification. If a company recognizes that they will be hacked in this way, then they might want an even bigger valid keyspace as well, to prevent collisions between valid keys and pirate-generated keys. Which means a bigger invalid keyspace again.

But still, a single key for the Diamond pack would have been nice… :) (I already had NWN, but got it for the Kingmaker stuff and DVD.)

CD keys should all come with bar codes, and there should be some kind of cheapo USB bar code scanner you can buy. I mean my mouse has a freakin laser over here…

Yeah, make optical mice read the codes :)

Yeah, but the point is, those CD keys are kind of like my penis; the lengthiness is just overkill. You don’t need that many potential combinations OH MY GOD WE MIGHT RUN OUT OF THEM! THEY WILL GET HAXORED IF THEY ARE TOO SHORT!!!ONE!! Sure, okay. Let’s go with 20 digits, okay? Yeah, fucking 20 is enough, right? But, not too much…?

Meanwhile, scientific types figger that, assuming a modest 36 possible choices for each digit (non-case-specific letters and numbers), it would take a cracker working on a ten digit passcode about, oh, a little over 1000 years to break it. Moore’s Law notwithstanding, I think he’d give up after the first couple decades.

Ten; man, that’s half. Two five-character strings, instead of fucking five fours. We could compromise at 15 if some of you nervous Nellies want your Windows to store a null appendage and keep those L0phtcrack monkeys out, but whatever.[/quote]
That is not entirely true. Most CD Keys are made up of 3 components. The Private Key, the Public Key, and a checksum. The public CD Key is there so that people can do bans and such on their servers without needing to know the entire CD Key (thus you could turn any server into a CD Key collection site). Checksum can be as little as 2 digits. Both the private and public have to balance out to some sort of uniqueness. And as was already said, there needs to be a rather large set of invalid keyspace for everything to work correctly.

Mathematically, most groups are able to provide a working keygen within 24 hours of a game’s release. That will let you install, but it sure won’t work in multiplayer.

I’m reasonably certain that NWN is past the “flying off the shelves” part of its life. Possible solution? Remove CD key checks, including online.

Except that all game servers you would want to connect to require 1 CD Key for the original game and for each expansion. I am sure we could simply omit the expansion CD Keys for the installer, but then you would just be prompted for them later.[/quote]
:roll: Why not fix that problem too?[/quote]
How would you fix it? Without patching the game to not require CD keys, and thus removing any need for people to buy it.[/quote]
:roll: Oh, I don’t know. How about issue a 4th key for Diamand that worked in place of all the previous products? How about just requiring any one key, or the key from the latest expansion, on the reasonably theory that anyone who paid some money for your game was likely paying for all of it?

Anyone found this in Europe or found a webshop that ships it at reasonable costs?

Really would like to get the diamond edition, but can’t find it here.

Having the expansions without needing the online checks would be great for my laptop. Would only miss out on the pirates one, hope that will also become available offline someday.

IE I do have it right that you can’t play the online pat to play chapters without a internet connection right? Kept me from buying them so far.

Only got the basic NWN now, so the diamond is really good value for the money to me.

Yes, right now, at Play.com in the UK. Only 29 euros.

Really would like to get the diamond edition, but can’t find it here.

That’s because it’s called “Deluxe Special Edition” in Europe. :)

Okay, I don’t know if the two are actually identical but the DSE includes the basic game, both expansions, and a bonus CD, so that’s good enough for me.

Seems that it’s selling for the same numerical price everywhere. Which is funny, cause I bought it for $29 CDN.

It’s on the shelves here, and I’m really considering it, too. Never got
around to buying the expansions, either.

The first store I saw it at in Norway actually had a Diamond edition.
It’s not unknown to get US releases here, though; EB had Psychonauts
way back when it was originally released, so it was news to me that it was
only recently released for PC here.

There are many problems with that idea. It would expose the server admins to no sure way to ban problem players. It would disable the ability to continue to make and sell Premium Modules for NWN. It would require patching the game and other systems to suddenly not use a functional system - I think that making that radical change to a game this late in its life cycle is a high-risk venture. It would not fix anything for anyone who still has the current and past install versions of the game. The original issue was that there were too many CD Keys/characters to enter.

Umm, bioware controls cdkey verification. Just set the nwn-diamond CDkey to validate for all 3 titles, boom, done.

See, I’d agree, but based on the responses in this thread from Derek, I am forced to believe that either

A) It’s difficult.
B) It’s impossible.
C) Bioware didn’t give a shit enough to put any thought in to whether or not entering three cdkeys at once would suck.

Personally, despite having many friends and ex-coworkers whom I respect at Bioware, I’m inclined towards C).

(No offense, Derek, you know I love you!)

I’d say it’s more like

D) NWN Diamond is an value-priced bundled three year old product and the whole point was that they wanted to release a new SKU without costing them anything for testing/development.

But that’s just my guess.