Identity Politics

HighPlainsDrifter · 2016-02-29T19:01:37.000Z

ShivaX:

In the right circumstances we’ll all have to resort to cannibalism. I guess it’s time to freak out about it and act like it’s going to happen tomorrow. Anyone have any good recipes for drifter?

I feel threated!

TimJames · 2016-02-29T19:09:44.000Z

Soapyfrog:

Food for thought; shouldn’t you right wing types be delighted by all that in-fighting on the left? Surely if they all actually got along and decided to work together they would form a viable political alternative which could potentially gain power…

To the extent that I care anymore, I’m more concerned about the double-edged sword. Identity politics are a joke I can laugh about until I set a foot wrong and my life is obliterated by the chattering class through viral Internet shame.

Hey, it’s not very likely, and it’s not like it keeps me up at night, but we all have our unreasonable fears.

Quaro · 2016-02-29T19:53:03.000Z

LMN8R:

“One of the most radical things you can do is to actually believe women when they talk about their experiences”

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/581/anatomy-of-doubt

Jeezus.

LMN8R · 2016-02-29T20:25:54.000Z

Quaro:

Jeezus.

BTW, while the podcast episode is great (and terrifying, and frustrating, and unbelievably angering, and representative of literally everything wrong with rape investigations), the article it was based on was even better:

The Marshall Project – 16 Dec 15

An Unbelievable Story of Rape

An 18-year-old said she was attacked at knifepoint. Then she said she made it up. That’s where our story begins.

Quaro · 2016-02-29T20:50:28.000Z

LMN8R:

BTW, while the podcast episode is great (and terrifying, and frustrating, and unbelievably angering, and representative of literally everything wrong with rape investigations), the article it was based on was even better:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/12/16/an-unbelievable-story-of-rape#.vWmjgzHwb

Yeah I was in a rush so I read the linked article instead of listening to the episode.

Some similar stories I’ve read:

Washington Post

An 11-year-old reported being raped twice, wound up with a conviction

For years, her parents urged police to charge the suspects and sought an explanation for her treatment.

BuzzFeed News

The Police Told Her To Report Her Rape, Then Arrested Her For Lying

What’s at stake when police arrest women who they believe falsely reported rape? For Lara McLeod, it was her reputation, her mental health, and maybe even her baby nephew’s life.

Soapyfrog · 2016-02-29T21:25:45.000Z

gurugeorge:

LOL, this just shows me how lovingly well-constructed your strawman is. You really have no idea, do you?

Is “strawman” just another meme you are infected by or can you explain yourself in plain, non-jargon-laden english?

Alstein · 2016-02-29T23:20:49.000Z

Strawman is just another word for “I’m just going to no-platform your argument by delegitimizing it”. Whenever I hear that word these days, I know the other person has nothing constructive to say.

playingwithknives · 2016-02-29T23:51:20.000Z

Soapyfrog:

gurugeorge already linked this in support of his contention that most universities are being dominated by radical left-wing politics, in the case of McGill at least this is laughable.

Strange though that you are so desperately concerned with “SJW” movements that have no power and little influence over society at large while on the other hand Trump seems likely to win the Republican nomination. A toxic proto-fascist is literally jockeying for a position of power and you are still worried about what students do before they become serious people and what academics say to each other.

You can’t even comprehend someone like me would vote for Bernie can you.

I even know some black bloc types who hate identity politics.

gurugeorge · 2016-03-01T04:48:37.000Z

Soapyfrog:

Is “strawman” just another meme you are infected by or can you explain yourself in plain, non-jargon-laden english?

Since I’ve been doing that in all our conversations and you’re none the wiser, it would probably be a waste of time. I’m trying cryptic now.

Here’s a clue: the characterization of liberalism as Right-wing, is a Marxist trope …

legowarrior · 2016-03-01T04:57:57.000Z

This thread is no closer to making sense to me then when it started. It seem to just be about outrage about petty outrage, and not about anything of substance. Hell, this thread is in a dead heat with the Star Wars thread for the most drivel possible.

gurugeorge · 2016-03-01T05:04:07.000Z

legowarrior:

This thread is no closer to making sense to me then when it started. It seem to just be about outrage about petty outrage, and not about anything of substance. Hell, this thread is in a dead heat with the Star Wars thread for the most drivel possible.

As with all these types of things, there are two possibilities: either people are hallucinating something that isn’t there, or they’re seeing something you’re missing.

The gist of it is that some of us are seeing evidence of a noticeable proportion of politics and academia (and entertainment media, referencing TFA) turning into a sort of Idiocracy with a uniform, quasi-religious ideology.

Teiman · 2016-03-01T05:28:40.000Z

Alstein:

Strawman is just another word for “I’m just going to no-platform your argument by delegitimizing it”. Whenever I hear that word these days, I know the other person has nothing constructive to say.

Strawman don’t exist in english?

Here in spanish a “strawman argument” is when you create a imaginary character to with you attribute some ideas, created with the purpose to have a easy target for your arguments.

Is being said here that “strawman argument” is a acceptable way to discourse?

Generally strawmans are sort of disgusting. You want to tell that people “Please address what is being said, not what you imagine people said or what other people in other place say”.

Wallapuctus · 2016-03-01T07:24:37.000Z

Stop with the tone policing, all these micro-aggressions are gas-lighting my strawman. Which is problematic, because it’s triggering my PTSD (self diagnosed).

Soapyfrog · 2016-03-01T08:21:53.000Z

gurugeorge:

Here’s a clue: the characterization of liberalism as Right-wing, is a Marxist trope …

Classical liberalism is right wing (laissez faire capitalism). Modern liberalism in North America is centrist, pragmatically adopting socialism where appropriate, ideally using government regulation to account for externalities and imbalances. Socialism is left wing (state control of economy).

A keen observer of history will realize that neither wing of political thought works especially well in isolation, both lead to piles of human misery. It is to the western democracy’s credit that they fairly rapidly worked to iron out the problems with classical liberalism by leavening it with socialism which both acted as a an emergency valve to vent off revolutionary feelings and resulted in a much more stable and humane society. IMHO proper working democracy is to thank for this vital flexibility.

legowarrior · 2016-03-01T09:49:29.000Z

TV Tropes

Aggressive Categorism - TV Tropes

Bob knows that Alice is stupid: She's a woman, and women are stupid - never mind that Alice has a PhD and an IQ of 150, she's still a woman... and women are stupid, thus Alice is stupid. If Bob finally accepts that Alice is indeed smart, he might …

I thought this was appropriate. I feel like gurugeorge is lumping horrible people together under a single umbrella, despite these people having little in common with the group he is attacking, or even each other.

gurugeorge · 2016-03-01T12:08:13.000Z

Soapyfrog:

Classical liberalism is right wing (laissez faire capitalism).

Why are you swallowing a Marxist characterization of classical liberalism? Are you a Marxist?

Scuzz · 2016-03-01T12:10:13.000Z

Wallapuctus:

Stop with the tone policing, all these micro-aggressions are gas-lighting my strawman. Which is problematic, because it’s triggering my PTSD (self diagnosed).

gas lighting a strawman sounds like a terrible idea…

gurugeorge · 2016-03-01T12:10:28.000Z

legowarrior:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AggressiveCategorism

I thought this was appropriate. I feel like gurugeorge is lumping horrible people together under a single umbrella, despite these people having little in common with the group he is attacking, or even each other.

What you feel like’s happening and what’s actually happening are two different things here.

Soapyfrog · 2016-03-01T12:41:24.000Z

gurugeorge:

Why are you swallowing a Marxist characterization of classical liberalism? Are you a Marxist?

The characterization of classical liberalism is laissez-faire capitalism. Right wing or left wing is just a label for common parlance, stemming from where people sat in the French National Assembly.

magnet · 2016-03-01T12:42:36.000Z

gurugeorge:

Why are you swallowing a Marxist characterization of classical liberalism? Are you a Marxist?

Because it’s the Canadian characterization of Liberalism. And he’s a Canadian.