It also seems like stupid slogan to me, because it is easily dismissed as the ranting of madmen. Calling to replace, rather than abolish, ICE seems like a better idea.
Most importantly, if I never had to hear Trump hiss the word ICE like he’s Kaa from the Jungle Book again, that would be a huge plus.
Agreed. As much as I despise our immigration policy, that seems to be a losing rallying cry. I still like the notion of “Justice Democrats” and I hope that gets some more play.
That could easily go in the “liberal stupidity” thread.
“Abolish ICE” as a catchphrase goes right in the same category as the idea of repealing the 2nd Amendment. It’s unrealistic and inflammatory.
Which works for the GOP.
Allow me to lament the state of our electorate and media where one party can make a catchy, but unrealistic and inflammatory catchphrase, and get rewarded for it, while the other does so and gets lambasted. But if they make a more intricate or thought out phrase, they get criticized for not being ‘memorable’ or ‘made by a committee’
ICE was created in 2002 as part of the post 9/11 insanity. There’s basically no reason for it to exist and nothing insane about abolishing it. It may not play well politically, but the abolish ICE people are right on the merits. That must be worth something.
Sure, but only once we regain power. Until then, I think it’s too easy a beat for the GOP to drum.
If we’re too stupid to win arguments when the merits are on our side, we aren’t going to regain power. In any event, we shouldn’t echo the stupid objections of those who don’t know any better. We know better.
You’re not real, are you?
It’s hard to say. I feel real. Or is that an implant?
Obligatory Steve Arrington song post
Don’t be naive. The GOP will beat the drum anyway. Indeed even if you’re very careful in your language and very, very polite, the GOP will make shit up anyway. (See: birtherism.)
And don’t forget - the GOP is already calling for the elimination of the EPA, the Department of Education, Energy etc. - and were before Trump. Why do they get to call for radical restructuring of the government but not the Dems?
Ripping thousands of children from their parents and keeping no records so they cannot be reunited is either grossly incompetent, or deliberately evil, or both. The agency is clearly deeply dysfunctional. How do you propose convincing people that what you intend to do will actually fix the problem and not just be an excuse for standing by and doing nothing?
This exactly. We tried telling people, “We have nuanced, well-thought out policies, you can go read the spreadsheet;” they nodded off and then accused us of not having any policies at all.
So: ABOLISH ICE.
(By which everyone means replace it with something else.)
I won’t hold you to having read everything I’ve posted on the subject, but I’m NOT for “being polite” in our current political climate. But statements should be made strategically, and I sincerely doubt that one is going to resonate well after it gets through the media grinder and talking head spin.
Not to mention that it distracts from the more immediate crisis, which is reuniting these families.
… Just like after a school shooting is always the worst time to bring up gun regulations, right?
The GOP have successfully programmed their opponents to be completely ineffective. “Oh, no, you can’t complain now. You need to wait until the time is right or else your call to action will be grossly offensive. But, since we are the gatekeepers who determine when the time is right, the time will never be right, and you just bringing up the subject is grossly offensive in and of itself. You should be ashamed of yourself.” And the media nods.
The time will never be right, so we need to do it anyway and try to break the GOP’s grip on the narrative. We need to to learn to hammer home a message even if it doesn’t instantly win over everyone in the first 24 hours. If you’re losing territory the worst possible strategy is to never go on the offensive until every condition is juuuuust right.
No, that’s the perfect time for that. Not the same thing.
The only thing that could be an issue is that the idea of separation of kids was pretty much universally rejected by everyone, whereas abolishing ice is less acceptable.
That being said, i don’t see tons of normal folks being really motivated by the idea of “saving ice”. Only Trump’s hard core assholes think ice is a bunch of heros defending America.
So i figure the tactic is probably fine. It’ll motivate some part of their base, and is unlikely to really push anyone away.
Eh. I would love to see ICE abolished but even before this conversation I’ve been wincing every time I hear it because I think it plays right into Trumps idiotic bullshit narrative. Smart people know that calling to abolish ICE is not the same as calling for open borders but it’s not the smart people I’m worried about. I feel like it’s ammunition for firing up stupid idiots on the right.
Let’s win the midterms, then we can talk about abolishing ICE. People on the left and middle shouldn’t need a handy catch phrase to get out and vote. This isn’t 2016. Anyone who opposes this regime that fails to vote this Fall deserves to be lumped in with those who actively enable it. (And yes, the decision was pretty fucking clear in 2016 to anyone paying attention but the house is actively on fire now.)
Look, this is not a national election we’re facing. It is 435 local elections. A good many of the Democrats are running in districts that are reliably safe seats for Democrats, just like Ocasio-Cortez. Those people should absolutely speak the truth, that ICE is a totally unnecessary agency that did not exist before 9/11 and only came into existence because of the hysteria that followed that event, the same hysteria that caused us destroy a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. That there are other agencies that were already responsible for what ICE is supposed to do and those agencies are perfectly capable of handling the job without abusing people.
There are also Democrats running in districts where everyone knows they have zero chance to win. They should also spreak the same truth. Why not? There’s nothing to lose and everything to gain.
As for Democrats in competitive districts, when someone asks them if they are for abolishing ICE, they should practice a response along these lines: “Look, I’m for common sense policies that guard our border and protect us agains bad people, not for the kinds of policies that separate parents from their kids and put those kids in cages. That’s an outrage, the most un-American thing I can imagine, so why don’t you go ask my opponent why he/she is for it?”