Ok lets tackle this practically… are the poor a greater strain on the safety nets than the average contributing member of society? Of course, because they often cant pay for medical care, don’t have adequate coverage, need assistance/apply for assistance in various ways because they have to.
Ignoring the legal migration, that are gainfully employed then become illegal because that is not the concern of the average voter concerned about immigration. Despite most of illegal immigration being this
What remains are mostly the folks that cross the border illegally, and get jobs working with whoever will hire a undocumented worker. Usually people out to exploit them, and as a result rarely ever achieve middle class unless they can resolve their status somehow. So typically, these people are also poor and often fall into our safety net indirectly via Healthcare, kids in school, and free lunch programs and etc. At least some of these are forced to work under the table (maybe even most I haven’t see data on that - does it exist?).
Is this logic/common wisdom factually flawed? You note I say most. I did not say all. If you can point me how this example is not practically laid out and the most common pattern…I’d be thrilled to reconsider.
Safety nets are also an investment, or could be if we did it properly, since it can help people back on their feet and be productive members of society.
It’s why drug addiction program are so awesome. It not only helps people, but brings them back to society.
It stops future potential crime and helps them pay into society, not just in money, bit also in service.
Well, sure - there are lots of advantages you can have with the state rather than markets, sometimes. But educating children is about the most bizarre example of something to possibly worry about, whatever you call it.
I have never once, ever, thought to myself “damn, look at all that money wasted on teaching children to read and write!”.
I am simplying that this costs the city/state/nation not a lot per one but these people are here illegally and generate cost to the voter and a nation as a whole. I want immigration fixed, not hauling people out wholesale, but closing the loop that people are now exploiting them and costing us. We WANT legal immigration, but a lot of people are frustrated by the lack of closing that hole that cost is and many believe impacts their livelyhoods (and no certain proof it isn’t in some ways actually doing that)
It doesn’t cost the city/state/nation a penny. Producing educated children earns them a fortune in future economic activity even assuming the best case of not educating those children is net-zero (and it rarely is).
I’m talking about outgoing costs, not the overall costs or benefit to society because while you are right. Its also a factor why illegal immigration exists…so there kids can have a better life.
Or to be less facile, if you’re not talking about overall costs, why not? Any sort of ‘outgoing cost’ will be negative by definition, and any education of any child, illegal immigrant through to natural born citizen - will fail on that metric.
This is a pretty good summary of the research on the economic impact of illegal immigration. There is no consensus along the lines you’ve argued. Conservative organizations make your argument, other organizations make different arguments. If it were as obvious as you think it is, that would not be the case, so it is not at all obvious.
The one place there does seem to be consensus? Deporting all the illegal immigrants would be an economic disaster.
I think there is a wrongful assumption that “illegals” get expensive care in the ER. This is anecdotal, but one of my responsibilities was reviewing medical records for new patients. When someone had shit insurance (medicaid), the patient would get an EKG and then discharged. Insurance currently pays about $16 for an EKG (clinic prices, these are not hospital prices). Patients who had good commercial insurance would get EKG ($16), Echo ($250-$600), stress tests (~$150 for normal, around $5k for a thallium, maybe even a cath/angiogram $10k. You get to put a stent for $20k+ if you’re lucky.)
The hospital discharges you and tells you to find a cardiologist when you have shit insurance. I asked once who would make these decisions, was told probably the head nurse.
edit: There are exceptions. That’s with outright fraud cases. The Mount Sinai cath lab case was huge (14 mil a year), bribing (disguised as rent payments) a doctor who gave them ~70%+ of their patients.
There is a lengthy Bloomberg article that detailed all this but it’s been paywalled. Think of this thought, some people claim this is an example of uninsured people abusing the system to get emergency Medicaid. Is this not also a huge abuse by the hospital and other profit-seeking entities? Nobody goes after them, they are the ones who lobby Congress…
What never fails to kill me is that the vast majority of Republicans both believe in God and consider religion to be either very important or at least somewhat important in their political party affiliation, but then they come down hardcore on actually putting those beliefs into practice. Immigrants are taking our jobs! Immigrants are murdering our people! Can’t help these immigrant scum, they didn’t go through the legal process so their humanity doesn’t matter, etc. All bullshit. They simply don’t care about these people wanting to somehow find a better life for their families.
Or to be less facile, if you’re not talking about overall costs, why not? Any sort of ‘outgoing cost’ will be negative by definition, and any education of any child, illegal immigrant through to natural born citizen - will fail on that metric
I’m trying to think of a good analogy here, but it boils down to how you view life/philosophy. No better than the other just different.
Best I can come up with is you move in with someone, one of you considers your money jointly in the best interest in the household, while the other wants to maintain separate budget expenses, both valid with different priorities.
In this case the concern is I see the validity of your point, but the one I also made is valid. The illegal rush across the border comes at a cost…and we end up paying it (holistically admittedly small biil), its a bill your paying where someone is forcing themselves on you against the law.
I’m alarmed by our national debt, and again also think we should have a single payer system and defund the standard military force as it exists today (though sometimes Putin is making me rethink that). So any bill we don’t have a absolute obligation to pay, I question. I also abhor the tactics used in the current admin to dehumanize the people to justify cruel behavior.
I never understood how the Christian Right cam ignore that one. It seems so straight forward.
Matthew 25:40-45 New International Version (NIV)
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
If someone comes in with NO insurance, say someone here illegally and has no employer coverage because they are paid under the table AND has a life threatening health issue, like a heart attack or really bad injury from a accident…do they get turned away?
Since the have no healthcare through work, instead of getting treated when they start getting sick, they a forced to wait to get medical help at the emergency room when they got so sick they have life threatening phenomena. Do we turn those people away? I suspect not.
Who pays for that bill if the person cannot possibly even if they wanted to? I mean I suspect the hospitial, but then to cover that…they do what? Rise prices for everyone else doctor’s visit, right? that was the narrative for reducing the cost of health care…for ACA wasn’t it?
