In Star Wars movies ... who is most powerful?

I agree on both points - obviously Palpatine was trying to sway Anakin once Anakin arrived at the scene, but he was actually in rough shape before that. And when he unleashed his lightning, Windu was able to hold it off and cause it to deform Palpatine, which couldn’t have been planned.

Anyone notice how similar Jackson’s surprise at Anakin’s action was to his comparable 'surprise" scene in Deep Blue Sea, heh heh.

On the Yoda fight, I just think Lucas wrote himself into a corner. He couldn’t show Palaptine to be stronger, because that would imply that Dark was more powerful than light – yet by having Yoda fight him to a standstill, it made no sense that Yoda wouldn’t go back with ObiWan, with Anakin disabled, and try to take him on together to restore order. The only thing that makes sense is that he now has a huge freaking army protecting him, and it would be impossible to get through it, but that wasn’t offered up as an obvious out.

Heh, that’s an excellent point. There’s really no reason for it, other than dramatic purposes.

It’s hard to get more badass than Obi Wan’s split second thinking in the assassination attempt on Padme in AotC and jumping through a window and grabbing onto a flying droid though. I’d forgotten about that till I watched it yesterday, Obi Wan is awesome.

That was one of the best scenes in Clones.

That could have been dodged very easily by having the security cameras in the Jedi temple show Sidious telling Anakin to go to Mustafar.

“Look, Yoda, Anakin’s gone to Mustafar to kill the separatists! But we have to team up if we’ve got any chance of defeating Sidious, so he’ll have to wait!”

“No. Vision I am having. Padme. Important to saving the Jedi is she, and in danger she is from Anakin. Grave danger. Go to Mustafar you must. Now. I alone Sidious will fight.”


Such a simple change in the script, and it would have removed the biggest plot hole in the whole movie. The only thing that explains Yoda taking Sidious alone is arrogance, which Sidious does insult him for. So Lucas doesn’t completely blow this the scene, but it could have been so much better with a few small changes.

That’s what really bothers me about the movie. Lucas spends hundreds of hours overseeing the CGI effects – “We need 2,604 ships in the opening battle scene, not 2,603!” – adding so many extra details that it actually damages the look of the movie and makes scenes too busy. And he blows basic plot structure in fundamental ways. This kind of thing, to me, is way more unforgivable than stilted dialogue and acting, because it’s just so stupid, and really kills my suspension of disbelief.


Who’s the most powerful? I thought Shonuff was the Master. :P

Oh yea… SPOILER!

Did I mention the SPOILER!!

I think Sidious’ plan all along was to increase his power. Since force power is limited by those silly midichlorians, the only way for him to become more powerful was to control someone with more midichlorians. Thus he creates Anakin Skywalker and begins a long and elaborate scheme to make him his thrall and completely destroy his sense of self.

In Sidious’ mind he has created the perfect apprentice. One more powerful than any other single person, but that will never turn on him. Or so he thinks.

The first 2 movies set up Palpatine as a perfect manipulator; this one showed the places where his plans went awry and the little details that will come back to undo him. Yoda and Obi-wan escaping, and Padme giving birth to Luke and Leiea before death.

Jesus Christ, McCullough. You and Midnight Son need to lay off the P&R Forum for awhile.

The Episode III novel clears alot of these issues up.

Mace has the ability to see “faultlines” in the force that show connections between people and where their weaknesses are. When he fights Sidious, he realizes that Sidious’ weakness, his shatterpoint, is his trust in Anakin. Sidious trusted that Anakin would save him and in doing so, cement his turn to the Sith. I have no doubt that Sidious was throwing the fight in order to set Anakin up to kill Windu and complete his transformation into a Sith Lord.

As for the fight b/w Yoda and Sidious, Yoda realizes that he is not strong enough to beat Sidious. He realizes that while the Sith have been adapting their ways for 1000 years, the Jedi have not and their method of training is outdated. The reason he flees is because of this knowledge; if he dies, the realization of the Jedi’s weakness dies with him. The only hope to ultimately defeat Sidious is to train Luke or Leia differently than the way in which the old Jedi were trained.

That’s basically what the book says, anyway. It helped me understand things much better.

That’s completely EU material. Mace’s “shatterpoint” stuff was invented in the EU novel titled (coincidentally enough) “Shatterpoint” which focused on Mace and was written by Episode 3 Novel author Matt Stover. He was just bringing his own invention into context there.

If you like the Episode 3 novel I recommend Shatterpoint. Its a good read and incredibly violent for Star Wars. Its essentially Heart of Darkness in a Clone Wars setting.

Cool, I didn’t know that was invented by Stover in another one of his novels. I’ll check it out, thanks!

Too bad that guy didn’t write the movie.

His original works- Heroes Die and Blade of Tyshalle- are very, very good. I was shocked to find out he’s cranking out Star Wars crap, but according to his website he reached the conclusion that money talks.

Supposedly he’s going to be working on a third book in that series in the near future.

At least his Star Wars books will let him put “New York Times Bestselling Author” on the cover of his non-SW work and hopefully get some more notice.

That power of Windu’s is the only decent explanation of why he was a such an asshole to Anakin in the films, too.

I thought that was explained by the wooden acting and the poor direction on the movie.

You’re committing the classic error that geeks everywhere commit. It must be built into some kind of geek code. Or maybe you are simply accessing the Geek Force.

In the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight, Anakin is possibly at his 2nd most conflicted time (after his decision to kill the Jedis in the temple), and he spends just about the whole movie being very conflicted. Also, Obi-Wan if I’m not mistaken is Anakin’s only friend. Granted, Obi-Wan has his share of contextual conflict in the fight too, but Anakin is drowning in it.

Obi-Wan simply is much more single-minded in wanting to win the fight than Anakin is… and its fairly shocking to me that he had such a lack of empathy for Anakin that he would abandon him after the fight. After all, if he took him in and healed him I suspect Anakin would have returned to the Light Side (after all, Padme would have already died so that fuel to the fire would have been extinguished). Isn’t Obi-Wan supposed to be WISE… or did that just happen later? Was it like Sidious said, that the Jedis are so afraid of the Dark Side that it blinds them?

Would a Sith have abandoned a great Jedi he just defeated when the opportunity for CONVERSION exists?

The Geek error is to decontextualize everything… to turn it into a Dragonball Z battle of “power ratings”. Sidious rises to 24,000! Oh my Force! Fall back!

… and its fairly shocking to me that he had such a lack of empathy for Anakin that he would abandon him after the fight.

I had the same feeling. What the hell? At least finish him off.

Lucas probably should have had Anakin fall into the lava and sink away, maybe show him protecting himself with the force or something.

Obi-wan leaving Anakin alive is just one of those classic Hollywood cliches, like the big bad supervillain explaining his plan before leaving the hero (alone!) in a fiendish deathtrap. Does it make any sense? Of course not! Why does it happen? The writer needs it to. Giving the matter further thought is fruitless.