| Title | In Warhammer Quest, the emperor has no dice |
| Author | Tom Chick |
| Posted in | Game reviews |
| When | May 29, 2013 |
I was several missions into Warhammer Quest before something dawned on me that must be obvious to a lot of you. Warhammer Quest is based on a boardgame. Which explains a lot. But what it doesn't explain is why this is such a terrible boardgame port..
Read the full articleI appreciate the review (and I agree sometimes mechanics need to be explained for games to be enjoyable). However, the game does have a "journal" feature where the mechanics are explained (if in an disordered fashion).
It's a rulebook, not unlike the Battle of the Bulge manual, except that that one was written by people with experience on how to explain a game, and WHQ's is sloppy beyond measure. But the information is there. Mostly...
That said, I haven't really tried the game yet (the journal is like the first thing I found), so I dunno if this will give redeem it somewhat...
Nice review, for all that the verdict is negative. I think I need a "Ten iPad games you need to play" feature, by the way. I worry that I'm missing out on the good stuff....
I've read everything in the journal that I've unlocked. If that's what passes for an explanation of the rules, it is indeed horrible. Where in the manual does it explain the calculations for hitting? It simply points out that two values are "compared". That's like me teaching you to play D&D by saying some numbers will be compared to see if you hit. What numbers? Compared how? Subtracted from each other? Is a die rolled? Is there a multiplication to get a percentage chance? Boardgames teach you these things and I'm pretty sure knowing that is a significant part of playing Warhammer Quest at a tabletop.
Furthermore, someone just emailed me to explain how toughness works. It's apparently a flat deduction from damage received. That seems pretty simple. But here's how it's written in the journal: "Some opponents are tougher than others and can withstand blows more easily. This toughness is deducted from the number of wounds caused." That implies to me that only certain opponents -- the ones tougher than others -- get a deduction. "This toughness", written as a phrase after singling out a group of unique tough creatures, is very different from simply "the toughness attribute". The journal is a godawful excuse for a way to teach someone the rules.
I suppose I could just read a PDF of the manual, which is probably online. But my bigger problem is how little of this information is presented as you're playing. A good boardgame port would replicate the experience of playing the game, where I'm keenly aware of how the stats interact as I play. This character has this strength and he's wielding this weapon against this monster's toughness with these wounds. That stuff seems intentionally obscured in the iOS version of Warhammer Quest, as if Rodeo Games was ashamed of it. :(
Consider X-Com, for instance, showing you the percentage chance to hit. I've been playing a lot of Fallen Enchantress lately, which does a great job of constantly putting the stats in front of you, and it's not even a boardgame port.
Yeah, they should probably rewrite the journal. It's a disaster. A cool idea, but a disaster.
However, the thing that annoys me most is that, even if I'm a native Spanish speaker, I prefer to play my games in English. Translation budgets are tight, or so it seems from my experience. I'd rather get the original. similar reason why I like to play the metro games in Russian with subtitles or the Witcher games in Polish.
However, the game only sets part of the game to English, while other text strings remain in Spanish. It feels schizophrenic... In that screenshot of the store you have text in German, English and Spanish... ugh!
Seems to be a problem with iPad games. Ace Patrol sets itself to the system language every time you start the app, no matter how many times you change the settings in-game.
That said, I'm enjoying the game for what it is (obscure ruleset notwithstanding). Playing hardcore from the get go, so the added tension is giving me what I want...
2 Stars seems a very harsh score to me, but I can see what you're getting at with the explanation, I've found alot of the mechanics can be learnt by practice or a little logic, for example firing at closer target does seem to yield better results and tbh I would have found it patronising if a pop up had told me so. I still don't fully understand why such under the hood rolls need to be known for this game to get a decent score.
Generally I've found the gameplay very enthralling and addictive. I like the level of progression, I'm not sure on the entire depth of the game but it appears I have alot more levelling and progression to make, which begs the question that is this harsh review due to the fact it's only been out about 24 hours and it's a first glance review? It is an adaption of the board game but it doesn't vow to be the boardgame, so for me its current state is warranted and I like the results.
Although, each to their own. Top Game, 5 Stars for me. Although the DLCs on day of release is a spurious idea. Currently, after several hours playthough, the base game seems worth the price.
The devs have reiterated many times that this isn't a direct port of the boardgame but a video game adaption of the boardgame that adapts and streamlines the key elements
Then they should explain that adaptation and streamlining. The point is not whether the game is a direct port or not. The point is that it is so undocumented.
But they have. In interviews, the devs have said that the dice rolls essentially happen under the hood. And that they wanted to make it accessible to those who never played the board game. But they did discuss many times about adaption and streamlining
I know nothing about Warhammer or tabletop RPGs so maybe that lack of knowledge was better for me, because I can just enjoy the game as is (just a polished turn based dungeon crawler) while others like yourself are going to be comparing the game to the real thing
Oh, and what would your opinion be on DLC in a retail console game that added new characters that played differently or new regions with new side quests, new missions, new location, events, and enemies?
Nurgle's Rot? You know, I never considered the same gods are in both universes.
I've already learned useless trivia this morning!
You don't need to know the real thing (Tom's never played the original, I suspect) to want to know how the game's mechanics operate. For that matter, you don't need to be playing a boardgame port to want to know that.
I think you're still missing the point. The issue is that I want to know the rules of the game I am playing, when the game is simple enough that the moves I am making have clear consequences. If it were a game based on a completely new IP, I would still want to know: if I move this character closer to the target, how much does that improve his ranged to-hit chance? Is the move worth it or not? That's how a good boardgame works. When the mechanics are simple and straightforward, playing the game involves evaluating those mechanics. Playing blind turns you into a spectator, not a player. You're just along for the ride.
I would have no problem with your DLC example because it does not involve the issues we are discussing here. You think I'm objecting to the difference in mechanics from the boardgame, which I am not.
I'm legitimately curious - How would you reveal the mechanics behind each attack? Is it enough to just explain what is at work once at the start then journey on? Is there a way that the numbers or icons could fly together during each attack to show this? Would that slow down the game? Are there examples of other game battles that implement this effectively?
What a dumb review, never heard of this site before will never visit again. Get the aspergers sorted mate.
Is it reasonable to play this on an iPhone or is the screen size too small?
Bought it then checked your site... should have done this in reverse :(
It is true. The journal has a lot of useful bits in it, but they are needlessly obscured by flowery language and word choice.
In an effort to aid those that might be interested in the game, but find the rules feedback frustrating, I will try to offer my non WHQ iOS understanding of The board game.
For better or worse Games Workshop games are built around a standard D6 die. They don't generally embrace all the crazy polyhedral dice of other games. This is in fact my biggest beef with GW products as you can only do so much with the odds on six sided dice. Anyway, combat in WHQ breaks down as the following:
Making an attack compares the weapon skill of the target to that of the attacker. An even score is an even chance. This is also what the journal states. What is left out is knowing that it is a d6 system. So equal WS means a hit on a roll of 4+ on a d6 (50%). As the numbers move from neutral the odds change in a non linear progression. WS 3 hits WS 2 on a 1+, a 2 on a 3+, a 4,5,6 on a 4+, a 7,8,9 on a 5+, and a 10 on a 6.
Is this critical information? I don't know. As a test, knowing only what was in the journal, my test subject quickly grasped what would be easy or hard to hit without knowing 66% or 3+ or 17% on a six by simply looking at WS numbers.
Once a hit occurs the formula is (weapon damage + strength) - toughness= number of wounds lost. This is also in the journal but obfuscated by excessively narrative and poor word choice.
Also, as guessed, Winds of Power is a random die roll. In WHQ it is a d6. In WHQ iOS I suspect it may be something else. Still knowing GW is d6 system or from a few turns of playing the iOS game, it becomes clear that a spell that costs 2 is pretty easy to cast whereas a spell that costs 5 (healing mist) is not to be counted on. For what it is worth, and not meaning to be snarky, my test subject also figured this out pretty quickly from just the journal and playing a few rounds. A roll of a 1 in WHQ is indeed a double whammy as the wizard is neutered and a monster event occurs. The purpose, as guessed, is to slap down the motivation to sit around waiting for 5s to cast healing spells.
I hope this helps someone. I have not played the iOS version too much yet, but the board game is a gem so knowing these few basic may really help in getting to a point to see that in the digital version. The journal does need an overhaul though.
For the correct way on how to show die rolls and modifiers to the player, see the port of Phantom Leader. Like most boardgame ports, you're better off reading the rules for the boardgame first, but Phantom Leader does a good job in leading players through the individual die rolls, modifiers, and results. Talisman: Prologue is another example of well-explained mechanics.
Curious about that myself.
Wow. When I was confused about an ability I took a couple seconds to read the ability descriptions. The game mechanics are laid bare if you read. Everything you complain about is explained in the game.