Timex
2713
Having everyone get what they need is a more useful goal than trying to make certain people have less.
It’s a feature throughout history that the wealthy have opposed paying more because they convince themselves that taxes should not be levied by percentage but by head, and so the % they pay should go down the wealthier they are, because after all, they are paying more than the ordinary schlub, right?
There’s no natural order of tax law, and no particular reason that finance-capital based wealth is simply beyond the ken of a taxation system better suited to counting cattle sold and acres of land bought.
If you can take loans against your accumulated stock positions (unrealized gains), and those loans make more per year than the interest rate on the loan, you’ve literally made a money tree.
One is taxation, and the other is not.
Neither ice cream is taxation, though strawberry ice cream comes close. Meanwhile, both wealth taxes and income taxes are taxation.
Timex
2717
But how would those loans be making money that was itself not taxed?
The loan itself is not a gain… it’s a loan, that you’re paying back.
Any profit you earn as a result of using that loan, would be income and thus taxed.
Banzai
2718
Somehow property tax is still a tax. And sales taxes are a tax. What is this devilry that taxes something other than income?
Yes, this. I really thing it amounts to a moral position with some people, that the idea of a wealth tax is morally wrong, an offense to the natural and proper order of things.
Yea, there’s a real psychological gap here. People think in terms of bars of gold, of numbers of dresses in the closet. It feels offensive that the King taxes you for having too many head of cattle and being successful.
But that’s not what finance capital is anymore.
rowe33
2721
It’s funny how the leaders that rail against the injustice and horror of a wealth tax are the same ones that continually refer to the US as a Christian nation.
Timex
2722
Sales tax is actually very similar to income taxes, in that it’s often implemented as a tax paid by the seller. It’s pretty straight forward, as it’s just a tax on the monetary exchange.
Property taxes are indeed different, although property values are generally much more grounded and stable than stock prices.
Well, within the Christian church, the idea is that you pay a Tithe, which is 10% of your income, not of your wealth.
Raise your hand if you have ever actually been assessed a property tax based on a valuation of the property that was anywhere close to the actual valuation of the property.
/sits on both hands.
This is true, but I don’t know how it relates to the moral right or wrong of a wealth or property tax.
Banzai
2724
Ask trump how he hides his money so as not to pay taxes. I’ll bet there are some loans, and some business losses and at the end of the day, he didn’t earn any income at all on paper. Maybe even legally like the guy in the article. It’s still subverting the system and wrong, and if legal, should be changed, and if not legal, should have the funds to prosecute it.
99% of the big funders of Conservatism / GOP today are motivated solely and entirely about money. It’s basically, literally, an investment. Pay 50 million to prevent 250 million in taxes? Any day of the week. And because they have so much money and it’s obviously just a business expense, they’re going to spend a lot of money.
The idea of the tithe is that medieval monks want chicken dinners. Most tithes were paid in kind.
Sales tax is based on a transaction, just like income tax. If I buy a lamp at the store, I pay sales tax for that sale; I don’t have to pay another dollar every year for the rest of my life just for owning that lamp.
Property tax is a very specific case where you’re paying for upkeep of public facilities, such as roads and the electrical grid. There are no public facilities required for keeping a Rothko painting or having money in savings.
This seems mostly incorrect, but never mind. So what? Why is taxation of income (or sales or property) right while taxation of other wealth is wrong?
Some would argue that both are wrong.
Some are incredible stupid, and should never be listened to.
Banzai
2731
Alstein and Andy_Bates both use that big capital A as their icons, and I’m always surprised at the content of the posts until I figure out it’s not Alstein, it’s Andy_Bates, and then I’m not surprised at all.
Because taxation is based on transactions, not ownership. I’m not sure why you’re so confused by the concept of owning things.
Why don’t we tax people based on height? Why don’t we add an annual tax on everyone who is left-handed? Because those are not what “taxation” is generally understood to encompass.
