2895

No, I’m keenly aware of the existence of property tax. That doesn’t change the argument.

2896

Oh, good point. Car registration fees, which are generally flat however, and not directly related to the value of the vehicle. So it’s less a tax and more a usage fee (which is why certain types of plates cost more or less. Show cars, in many states, get a lower cost antique plate).

2897

Are you sure about that? I recall the fee varying based on the value of the car, and there is this:

Edit: It looks like many states include a % of the value of the car in calculating the license fee. It’s a tax.

2898

Interesting. Neither Illinois or Oregon did that to my knowledge.

Oregon does have a higher cost for hybrid and electric vehicle plates, intended as an offset for the lack of gas taxes you pay for road maintenance. You could also opt for a per mile based rate instead of flat rate, but the numbers were such that it probably is better to go for the flat rate.

2899

Yeah, it definitely seems to vary by state.

2900

Unless wherever it is invested in earns more, then you still gain the difference applied to the money you didn’t actually spent. Don’t make me get a spreadsheet.
I’m not saying it’s a big scheme, but add a few corporations getting stuck with the loans and no assets (because banks didn’t look too hard for reasons) whose capital goes bye-bye, plus some passing around of deferred assets and loses, and it increases. I doubt post-GFC changes stopped all of it, but it was definitely a thing before, because we just had a few of them (remembering nothing and making a mockery) in the equivalent of a senate hearing about a bank collapse. (yeah, still. there’s reasons for the slowness, I guess).
I’m not saying it’s the big problem, just that it’s a thing.

You’ll be pleased to know that, like Jobs or Gates, he invented none of it, they just had the right conditions to be the ones selling the stuff (and often making sure the competition didn’t. Just like ol’ Rockefeller). Including the image of actually mattering. Corporations were always terrible at innovating, because it’s not safe for investors, including the owners.

2901

Don’t forget the Bezos built all of that BY HIMSELF* and should be rewarded for that by paying as little tax as possible.

*Not counting the $250,000 gift from his parents, of course.

2902

I don’t really care what Bezos did or didn’t do, same with Gates or Jobs. They were either in the right place at the right time or were exceptional or both. Either way, I’m okay with them winning the lottery and being fabulously wealthy. I also think we should tax that wealth.

Their success doesn’t happen without the infrastructure of the country and an educated populace around them. No matter how smart a Gates or a Bezos is, they’re not doing shit without hundreds and thousands of very smart and very driven people. They should sustain the society that provided them with the opportunity to build their fortunes and as owners of fantastic levels of wealth, they can easily afford it.

2903

Not around here.

2904

Gotta give him a bit of credit then, considering Trump got that plus three more zeros and an established business and was still a massive failure at nearly everything he tried.

2905

Ditto here. There’s tables based on the age of the vehicle and the original value. No idea where they get the data, but the older/cheaper the car the cheaper the plate renewals are.

2906

I don’t think people generally like taxes, but they understand why they’re necessary. But if you start taxing the same earnings, people are going to be more resistant to it.

Let’s say that person lives at home, and then they scrimp and save and end up putting $10,000 away in savings. That person wouldn’t then expect to pay an additional tax on that $10,000 of wealth in perpetuity.

And as noted in that article you linked:

The portion of the registration fee that is charged based on the vehicle’s value - as opposed to its size, age or other characteristics - can generally be claimed as a deduction.

So if the registration fee is based on a car’s value, then it’s a tax, and it can be deducted from your taxable income so it’s not taxed twice. And if the fee is not based on the car’s value, then it’s a fee not a tax, and therefore it’s not deductible. Either way, that money is only taxed once.

And when you cash out those investments and take those gains, you pay capital gains taxes, just like with any other investment. And if those investments lose money, then you still have to pay back the original loan. There’s no free money anywhere in this situation.

Yes, sales and marketing are valuable, just like invention is. It would be ridiculous to discount that part of the equation and assume that Jobs or Gates didn’t do anything.

Yes, his parents took out loans and a second mortgage to make a risky investment in Amazon. If the company had gone under (as a lot of such companies do), that money would have been gone and they would be even deeper in the hole. But in return for that investment, they got shares in the company.

You’re acting like Bezos built everything by himself and therefore got all of the profits, when in reality he made money for thousands if not millions of others along the way.

That’s why those hundreds and thousands of people also get paid a salary, and get stock in the company, and the company pays payroll taxes and property taxes and all of the other side effects that come with being a successful company. It’s not like Bezos sits on an ivory tower of money while those around him are dressed in rags. Just look at housing prices in Seattle for proof of the secondary effects.

2907

And it was at this point I began ignoring you.

2908

Of course, being taxed for the value of your car is just another existing…wealth tax. A tax you pay on something you own over and over again. Something where you got taxed when you bought it and then get taxed because you own it. Not unheard-of!

2909

If you have data that disproves this claim for the top 1% in general (aside from specific exceptions for individuals), I would love to see it.

2910

Except that expense can be deducted from your income tax every year that you pay, so you’re only taxed once on the money you pay for car registration. So it’s not a wealth tax, and it’s not double taxation.

2911

Property taxes. Vast swathes of people do this every year with … property taxes.

They are paying property taxes on that home.

I feel like this is one of those weirdo & completely unethical 1960’s neurology experiments that they did, like if you insert a rod into exactly this part of someone’s brain they are no longer able to actualize the concept of property taxes.

2912

Let’s say that a conversation starts about wealth tax proposals that start at extreme levels of wealth like $50million dollars. Let’s say that someone in that conversation keeps giving examples like people with 10,000 dollars.

2913

Property taxes do exist in a slightly different realm in my headspace. Obviously they represent a chunk of wealth that isn’t mobile, and whose value is very dependent on the quality of many things not owned and outside of a person’s control. Don’t get me wrong, they are reasonable and necessary and in our urbanized world, kinda obvious. The wealth tax argument does seem to sit better as a thought experiment when the Vermeer is in the picture. Massive value with no upkeep.

2914

Heh, yeah, tried that last night, didn’t seem to work.