Family, self-improvement, travel, food, video games, music, any number of other hobbies?
Timex
3396
You seriously define yourself on the basis of something like… Music or video games you don’t even make, but just listen to or play? You define yourself on the basis of liking something that someone else created?
I’m seriously not really understanding how people find it somehow distasteful to define yourself based on what you contribute to society, which for many other people, takes the form of what they do for a living.
I mean, I can understand not defining yourself based on a job that you hate doing, but if you are spending your whole life in a job that you hate doing, or that doesn’t mean anything to you, then that sucks. That’s not the job you should be doing.
You say that as if it’s by choice. I don’t find it distasteful that someone defines themself by their work. I find it distasteful that most people have to, because there’s no other choice for most people.
But even putting that aside, why not? Why judge someone who has an encyclopedic knowledge of, like, Dragonball Z or the Ys series or whatever. That’s what they take pride in, and that should be fine. People should be able to define their lives by what makes them happiest, not what’s going to pay the bills.
Probably the majority of people working are not doing they job they want but the job they can. Having both ability to and opportunity to do what you want to do is maybe (?) more rare than you believe.
There’s also an enormous number of jobs that aren’t going to provide you that sense of satisfaction.
It’s not, but it doesn’t work for everyone. I can’t say what it is for me, as I don’t have a particularly stable mind, but my mediocre skills combined with a perfectionist streak were a big reason for years of depression, so, as a portuguese saying goes, I may not know where I’m going, but I’m not going that way (of obsessing over something that will never be good enough to the point of hating myself).
But there are things that people find fulfilling to do that are not a job, although some could be, and that a wage allows them to do. Understanding the world, the universe, and society should be important to anyone, even though it’s almost entirely pointless to anyone’s ability to earn a paycheck - even journalists, these days. I hear fulfillment is why people like to have kids, or have meals and parties for others, or volunteer to change many more person’s lives than their actual job.
I didn’t say it was bad, although workaholism is a thing for a reason; just that it isn’t for everyone. Especially since the market (or whatever could replace it) doesn’t give a fig whether you’re doing the job you should be doing, and seeing the stupid overfocus on STEM, so does “the system”; where do the square pegs apply to?
There’s also the assumption that all work is contribution to society, but, at the very least, there is no lack of bullshit jobs (even if the book with that name misses the mark). Or negative contributions like Giuliani.
I like my job, but if the eulogy at my funeral was “CFKane was a good lawyer, really did a great job with that regulatory analysis,” I would be pretty disappointed.
I’m fully expecting folks I didn’t even know to show up and say, “Why the fuck would he make that character balance decision?” or “What kind of moron was he to greenlight that game?”. So potato, potato
I don’t know one of the most interesting experience I had about work, was when I was teenager. My parents and I were in Birmingham, Alabama on our way to Florida. I’m not sure why but we ended up in one of the nicer restaurants in the town. The food was excellent, the waiter was out of the world. At the end of the dinner, my father compliment the man, saying he was the best waiter he’d ever had. The man told us a bit of his history, grew up the son of sharecroppers (he was black) and then got break as a Pullman waiter on trains. He said he loved being a waiter. I’m not doing justice to what he said, but in essence, he found great fulfillment, in bringing happiness one meal at a time.
While his experience isn’t common, it is far from unique. Studs Terkel wrote a number of books, most famously Working where he did oral interviews with average folks to doing very ordinary jobs. Many, but by no means all, took great pride in their work. So sure it is easier to change the world if you are a hotshot programmer, a doctor, or a politician but you can make an impact with any job.
Nesrie
3403
I would also like a spot in the my job does not define the whole of my life camp.
I mean I am fortunate to have the job I do, to be skilled at it as I am, and to have the opportunities that my work allows me to pursue, but it in no way defines me. This is not to say someone’s work can’t be meaningful or a large part of who and what they are; it’s simply not the case for everyone. And not having a job define who you are is not a sign that the job is bad or less than or you are ill-fitted for it either. It just means when someone reads my obituary I expect no mention of it… at all. I contribute to society in other meaningful ways that are also important to me that would likely be mentioned instead.
We had an older gentleman die at work. Just straight-up died while sitting at his desk. He was found by the cleaning crew when they came in to vacuum his office.
A few days later, HR sent out an email to everyone letting the company know what had happened, where they could send donations or condolences, etc. It ended with a sentiment that was basically, “X passed on while doing what he truly loved; searching for ways to minimize his team’s response times.”
I hope I don’t end like that.
KevinC
3405
Any more room in that camp for me? I work to live, it’s a means to an end. I don’t define myself by my work in any way, it’s just what allows me to keep a roof over my head and buy the occasional videogame.
Nesrie
3406
Always room for one more!
Seriously though, I thought part of the appeal of a UBI system was to remove that pressure of having to take the work you can get, or the work you can do, or maybe the thing that you are good at AND someone will pay you for it, and see what people would do if they had that extra cushion. Despite some talking heads saying so, I don’t believe the majority would just sit on their asses. I think people would pursue passion work, passion projects, take more risks and possibly just breathe a little better… something along those lines, or maybe they would retire early and then pursue those things.
One thing I know for sure, I lost track of the 60+ people just riding it out until SSI and Medicare. Some of them even enjoyed their careers, but they’re just ready to move on.
A person like me, who mostly hated what I did for a living, can grasp that other people love what they do for a living, but apparently that empathy isn’t reciprocal, and lucky people with jobs they love can’t grasp that other people don’t define themselves by their work. Weird, that.
As for what my job meant, what it contributed to society? I have no idea, except the one thing that I grasped with both hands as the only thing that kept me going: as long as I did it well enough, my people got to keep their jobs and feed their families. But you could say that about the most meaningless toil in the world: someone gets to eat because of it. That’s it.
I would turn that around and say that enabling someone to eat and feed their family is the most meaningful part of toil.
Even better if the result of that work allows others to eat (or eat better).
I’m sure that our ancestors preferred to sit around the fire carving statues, but someone still needed to bring home the mammoth.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that you love doing it. Ditch diggers feed their family, but I’m sure most of them would rather be doing some other work, and they’d surely not want to be doing it when they’re 60.
Agreed. I am fine with my chosen job in IT (as so many here), and it supports my way of living.
But I do envy my friends who actually love their job and seem to get energy out of it.
I wonder if there are stats on how many people love or tolerate or hate their profession…
The counterpoint was in 2007 during start of the great recession (actually, i was very, very tangentially involved in arguably the actual event that kicked it off), an older gentleman had foregone family and almost friends being “the best employee he could be” for decades. He was an enthusiastic employee, a real 24/7 lifestyle… yet when the cards fell off the table and the recession hit the company he had sacrificed everything for still just unceremoniously laid him off. The feeling that they were a “family” was really only one directional - in the end, business is still business, and corporate team building doesn’t change the logic of the fundamentals. He called to what at that time were basically business associates sobbing on the phone that he’d given his life to the company and were in the end discarded as just an employee. Honestly that was a life changing encounter for me, it made me incredibly suspicious of “one dimensional” lifestyles, and I started really branching out of my comfort zone and forcing myself to take overseas vacations and take up other hobbies, because at that point in my life I could have seen myself easily become that man. Sure you can be the waiter who loves his work and dies with a smile on his face - you could also be the 24/7 110% office drone that gets to die alone with a plate full of regret and emptiness after all the morale building emails stop and pats on the back turn into pink slips.
I think my broader point is that there are many different people and many different jobs, but the opportunities aren’t necessarily there. It’s kind of like the stable marriage problem, if we had perfect information and friction free mobility, it’s certainly possible to find the best partner or the best job. But in fact mobility both geographic and social are going down, and a person is more likely to be working at a grain elevator in Kansas not because they want to but because they were born there, and are likely to marry a mediocre partner nearby not because that’s their ideal mate but because there isn’t anyone else close at hand.
I think we can separate having pride in your work and doing a good job and not making that work the defining characteristic of your life. I’m pretty sure if someone bonked me on the head and made me a janitor, i would take some weird, private pride in how clean i made the bathrooms. I wouldn’t tell people this nor would i make clean porcelain what i wanted carved on my tombstone. This also wouldn’t mean that i had to love being a janitor either nor take the opportunity to stop being a janitor if the bonk on the head were reversible.
I think having a job you hate is like having a unhappy marriage. Good or bad luck plays a role, but not entirely. Anyone in a detested job or negative marriage should do what they can to change the situation.
Thrag
3413
Not everyone has the opportunity to do work that brings joy to millions and thus be remembered for it. Some leave a legacy of helping in small ways or make contributions that may go unnoticed. I mean we all can’t be this guy:
You win the thread today.
