Timex
3638
Automation is not a myth at this point. This shit is currently happening, and it’s going to happen at an accelerated rate from now on.
It is (happening). Seeing the scramble for workers at this moment in tons of places, it’s also way off. Certainly time enough to, say, cut working hours to get resources to add more than consuming.
Alstein
3641
Folks will think they won’t be the ones who get it, until they get it. Just like with COVID. American toxic individualism is a disease that is probably going to prove fatal to America unless cured.
In my case, I kinda saw the writing on the wall, my dad was a victim. If I hadn’t decided to so something really expensive due to not wanting to die a certain way, I’d prob be about 5 years away from safety, instead it’s 10. I think my odds of getting the 10 is decent though. If not, I’ll be in bad shape, but might be able to struggle through.
I do think automation will be likely ends the US, as we’ll head from our Social wars era into the Bread and Circuses era. It will be those societies that can successfully do some sort of collective action that will survive.
I’m sure the resources are much better spent in a legion of bureaucrats processing reams of paperwork than the risk of even one person with something to his name eating a meal.
So you really want me or Jeff Bezo, and Elon to get food stamps? My AGI, this year and last year was 0 which would qualify me for pretty much any government program without both wealth and income testing. Evidently both Jeff and Elon also had 0 AGI years.
Or do just want to get rid of means testing altogether. If you want to argue that means testing is excessive in some programs, you will get no argument. But, I’ve noticed that older programs often have the more excessive exemptions.
So in the case of SNAP here are the rules.
17-675-27 Exemption of burial spaces and funeral plans. (a) In the financial assistance programs, one burial space, including plots, vaults, and niches, per family member is exempt. In addition, bonafide funeral plans or agreements up to a total of $1,500 of equity value for each family member is exempt. (b) In the food stamp program, one burial plot per household member, except any amount that can be withdrawn from a prepaid burial plan without a 675-19 §17-675-30 contractual obligation to repay, shall be excluded. Funds from a prepaid burial plan that are borrowed or used with an agreement to repay shall be considered a loan. [Eff 3/19/93; am 8/01/94 ] (Auth: HRS §346-53) (Imp: HRS §346-29; 7 C.F.R. §273.8; 45 C.F.R. §233.20)
I’d be willing to bet that this section came into existence after a group of people were stashing money into life insurance/funeral home programs in order to defraud
Consolidating all welfare programs into a single program like UBI has some merit.
Considering how cheap food stamps? Nah, I am fine with you getting them if you want, and then recovering it all when you do your annual taxes.
Except for my taxes are 0, because my income is 0, because of Solar Energy tax credits from a business.
Well, you would claim SNAP as income, and the go from there.
Honestly, it’s not hard.
Honestly, seeing them use foodstamps on the inevitable photo would be ace. I’m not ShivaX, but this is a waste of limited resources for petty pay, with necessarily petty inquiries if it’s to be taken seriously. Increase the limits (that, like everything else, ended along with history) and I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t have to care about a lot of it, releasing people to do something actually useful.
Are you guys attacking the principle of the questions (e.g., no matter what your means, you should be granted food stamps if you ask) or arguing that it is administratively inefficient (people with means shouldn’t be given food stamps on principle, but enforcement is too costly and/or ineffective)? The latter needs data to prove that the costs of enforcement outweighs the savings in fraud prevention.
Nope SNAP is not income for tax purposes.
This is so weird, you all want to institute a wealth tax, but you oppose asset testing designed to ensure that welfare goes to truly poor people.
Pretty much anyone, who is self-employed, retired, owns a business, or is part of the underground economy with a decent tax accountant can ping pong, their income to near zero on some years, to take advantage of numerous programs. Child tax credits, ACA subsidy, SNAP, WIC, Section 8 housing subsidies. Some but not all of these programs are wealth tested.
Timex
3651
It’s probably possible to have simplified means testing based just on income for things like food stamps, without digging into crap like “do you have a TV that costs more than $500?”
While it’s possible for some people to do shenanigans to artificially lower their income on certain years, the amount of money they would be consuming through food stamps would likely be pretty insignificant.
I guess I would say that, first, the biggest problem with SNAP probably isn’t that it is means tested; it’s that it isn’t enough. And second, SNAP that isn’t enough and is means tested is better than no SNAP at all.
Sure. Your refrigerator probably costs more, and your range/oven, and you need both to store and prepare food.
LockerK
3654
I mean, SNAP has such a stigma that plenty of people who truly need the help refuse to ask - without taking means testing into consideration. And on top of that there’s restrictions on what you can buy with benefits. If a few sociopathic millionaires want to abuse the system and buy fresh unprepared foods because they have no shame… who cares, I guess?
Not sure why that can’t be changed pretty easily.
Just make it available to everyone and then it gets taxed out if you make too much.
Again, yes, I don’t care that comparatively tiny number of wealthy people would also get a benefit. Means-testing is fucking stupid, and straight-up bad government.
You want to apply for SNAP or whatever when you don’t need it? Go right ahead. Let the government in its majestic equality provide food assistance to the rich and poor alike.
Timex
3657
If you had no means testing, I think the bigger impact from an expenditure perspective wouldn’t be rich people, but rather everyone else.
If snap was available to anyone, then it would be foolish not to take it. There would be no stigma associated with it, since it would not imply any kind of poverty.
In that case, it works go a ways towards being a UBI. That may be fine, but you need to go into that with your eyes open. The cost of SNAP for the federal government would skyrocket.
