Independents oppose Bush re-election

A majority of independents, 53 percent, said they oppose Bush’s re-election, while 40 percent favor it, according to the Newsweek poll released Saturday. Republicans favor his re-election by an 86-10 margin, while Democrats oppose it by the same amount.

Most people with a brain oppose his “reappointment.”

Yes, yes, everyone who doesn’t think like you is an idiot. We get the picture.

Let’s end this thread right now: Hitler was elected!

Honestly, unless you work for Halliburton or a similarly entitled company, I just can’t figure out why you’d want to see Bush reelected.

And no, I’m not a Democrat.

Because you don’t get to pick between President George W. Bush on the one side and former President George Washington on the other. You get to pick between Bush and { Lieberman | Dean | Clarke }. I’m not particularly fond of Bush (no more than I was I when I voted for him last time). If McCain were to run as an Indie, I’d probably vote for him.


I am disgusted enough with Bush (and John “Satan” Ashcroft) that I’d vote for a warm spinach salad if that’s what the Democrats run. One of the reasons I didn’t vote for Gore last time was because he was running with Lieberman, whom I hate; but after seeing the last three years, I would vote for Lieberman over Bush next year.

Comrade, Rywill has been radicalized to our one-world socialist agenda! Our victory is complete!

I’d vote for Bush (theoretically, not really planning on voting) because I think he’s doing a halfway-decent job with foreign policy. Sure there are flaws, but it could be done a hell of a lot worse. (I don’t see the current rift with Europe as being that big a problem, in particular)

I’d prefer McCain, and I wouldn’t be upset at Dean getting the job. But all the other Democrats strike me as exactly the wrong kind of people.

Although, anybody who comes out and guarantees that they would ditch the entire TSA, let people carry pliers onto planes again, and suspend/repeal the Patriot Act as their very first elected act, would get my vote and maybe some volunteer work too.

It’s a bit scary to think what Bush and Ashcroft could do to personal freedom in another four years. Once we lose these freedoms, they may be very difficult to get back. That’s reason enough to get rid of them.

I think that enough independents have become wary of Bush that the Dems have a reasonable shot at beating him, if they put a good candidate up. Being opposed to Bush to is only half the voting choice - if the independents see a retread Dem candidate who is only attacking Bush without offering good alternatives, then they may turn off and go with inertia, spin and propaganda to chose the incumbent.

I think there’s a window of opportunity here for one of the front running Dems to emerge as a Bush-beater by putting forward good alternate strategies on Iraq, the war on some terrorists, jobs and the economy. No matter how much I hate Bush, I admit that he does pick a message and stick to it (right or wrong) - the Dems need a better message that they can hammer home with equal clarity. Despite Bush’s weakening support, I don’t believe a purely negative campaign will win, unless the economy tanks, and/or Iraq goes down the tubes.


Asher, I’d love to hear what personal freedoms you’ve lost in the past 3 years.

Please let me know.

C’mon, you know we’ve lost some rights to privacy. You know that the government is holding people without giving them due process. The Liberty Act or whatever it was called has given the government more power to monitor us. Are you going to pretend that all these things haven’t happened? The government now has the right to review library records. They can see what books we’ve checked out.

But yeah, other than that, nothing’s changed. Why be upset that the government can imprison people for years without charging them with any crime?

Two words: enemy combatant.

Theoretically the President could search your house without a warrant on national security grounds and then declare you an enemy combatant.

  1. No information about your arrest - that you have been arrested, what you are charged with, where you are being held, and so on, can or will be released.
  2. The government can refuse to charge you, and hold you in jail for the rest of your life.
  3. If the government does charge you, it’ll be in a special court where you won’t be able to see the evidence against you, won’t be able to confront your accusers, and won’t be able to choose your own legal counsel.
  4. No one will be allowed to see you but your executive-appointed attorney. When with your attorney, the government has the right to listen to the entire conversation.
  5. If you’re convicted, your only route of appeal will be to a theoretical
    court that’s never once met in session.
  6. You have no other avenues of appeals. No other federal court - including the Supreme Court - has jurisdiction over you.

For example, under authority it already has or is asserting in court cases, the administration, with approval of the special Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, could order a clandestine search of a U.S. citizen’s home and, based on the information gathered, secretly declare the citizen an enemy combatant, to be held indefinitely at a U.S. military base. Courts would have very limited authority to second-guess the detention, to the extent that they were aware of it.

Yes, it really is this bad. I am not exaggerating. The only reason this doesn’t have people screaming in the streets is that, like all tyranny, it’s initally only applied to “enemies.”

Would you trust Bill Clinton with this power?

To be fair to the Patriot Act, there was a huge outcry at the failure of Law Enforcement and Intelligence to cooperate in preventing 9/11 from happening. The new legislation changed it so the FBI and police could act on information the CIA already had. You can’t have it both ways, if you wait til the crime has been commited it is already too late, and there may well be no defendents left to prosecute. So you relax warrant requirements and give law enforcement more wiggle room to covertly collect evidense, hopefully preventing future attacks, or you return the standards to their previous level and accept the possible consequences.

Oo… Theoretically! Is there an actually count of this occuring in the past three years. Please link me!

You guys act like this is a new thing. The “government can see what books you check out” has been around forever. And as far as slaughters disguised as justice, under what administration did Waco, Elian, and Ruby Ridge occur again?

And Asher, your well thought out “Aww, shucks, you know we’ve lost some privacy rights!” answer to my request for actual rights you feel you have lost was not too impressive. I’ve seen you post time and time again about the horrific loss of rights we all of the sudden have under Bush and I had hoped the answer to my inevitable query would have been better than that.

You have to understand bub, that the left’s cry is always about the denial of rights by the right: Right to abortion, right to welfare, right to work, right to a job, right to a decent wage, etc.

Honestly, unless you work for Halliburton or a similarly entitled company, I just can’t figure out why you’d want to see Bush reelected.

or unless you’ve seen the cauldron of ineptitude that is the democratic party candidates.

Does the cauldron come with witches? Green, warty ones with broomsticks?

Bush didn’t just enact laws at random by executive order - he had to push this stuff through both Houses of Congress. Your elected representatives deserve just as much bile as Bush does on this one.

I’m not happy with the removal of rights or with my pricacy being reduced - but I’m more worried about laws like the DMCA then I am about the Patriot Act.

Given that - I have no great love for Bush and given a viable alternative that I can agree with on issues I will vote for them.

There are actual American citizens being held in this situation, Bob, yes. I am amazed at your ability to be cavalier about it - is it something you won’t care about until it happens to someone you know?