Inevitable Obama election hits firearms retailers

I’m sure you’d agree that those two are freaks of nature and the FBI bungled that situation to the point of incompetence! Amazing story to read, by the way.

Anyway, are there other industries feeling the pressure of the election out there?

I think the best approach to “assault weapon” control was approached all backwards the last time around. Just banning guns that looked more scary than other guns was the wrong approach.

Instead, a Congressional panel should have determined a baseline minimum scary-looking factor that all firearms would be required to have. Guns that didn’t look that scary would have to have angry-looking spiky bits and such added on to them, until they looked scary enough. That way, they’d all look scary, and the problem would be solved.

I wonder what the coerlation between Pro life and pro gun control is? I tend to think of gun control as a liberal thing and pro life as a conservitive thing, if that is the case there is some serious hipocracy going on on both sides (not a life/death thing, but more of a why limit some rights and not others thing).

Good Lord, don’t bring abortion into the thread.

Actually, the abortion thing does blow a giant hole in my argument, and I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. All abortions are inherently pretty scary-looking, well above the baseline, and it’s still an issue. Back to the drawing board.

I’d be perfectly willing to add some scary spiky things to my rifle. I’ll see what I can do!

This thread needs some RU-486 before it births another monster!

I bet your side suto is really powerful too.

You wound me, sir. There is no firearm, nor explosive, equal to the mighty suto of side.


Edit: suto de lado, for our Southern friends.

Years ago, when I did a lot of target shooting, I had a CAR-15 and a HK-91. Really loved the CAR; the HK was too freakin’ big and heavy (7.62 rounds are HEAVY). I sold everything in grad school when I was broke but I wish I had kept my CAR-15.

Thanks for the clarification, shows how little I know about firearms! I just saw the M16 / M4 Carbine look and assumed they were of a similar breed :)

However I don’t think your example of the Florida shootout supports your claim that it isn’t a question of power. Reading the wikipedia page suggests one of the main conclusions drawn was that the FBI could have done with more powerful weapons – I think it fair to assume that criminals would similarly benefit, and inversely be hindered by lesser power.

But of course you are right that ability plays a huge role.

Well yes, I wouldn’t know how to disengage the safety so I think a baseball bat would suffice. ;)

You realize sir, that I take my baseball bats very seriously. (note location)


I own a semiautomatic version of the AR15 in an M4 style. I only use it at the range, usually teaching people without military experience basic riflery. It’s a very decent starter weapon with negligible recoil that gives very satisfying results for beginners, and I enjoy pretending that I’m keeping the skills I’ve developed over my time in the military.

I think starting with rifles makes a lot more sense than with handguns, but that’s all dependent on what the person is looking for.

For the record, the AR15 is chambered in 5.56 usually, which is essentially a high velocity, accurate .22. It is what I would call a moderate amount of firepower, and as Houngan says, only in the right hands.

Out of interest what’s the limit on what sort of guns you can own? Could you own a SAW or similar?

A saw is an open bolt, fully automatic weapon by its design. As such, you could procure a special license for it, but it involves an extensive screening, full gun registration for all of your guns, and a good chunk of money (all coordinated as painfully as possible by the ATF and local law enforcement). So most civilians will only come across it from people who offer it at a range or a special event, and will never know the particularly dismal misery of the m249 experience firsthand. Let’s just say the expertise: effectiveness ratio would be pretty shocking if it was being closely tracked.

I understand the skepticism about the 2nd amendment as it is in many ways anachronistic. However, the biggest problem for its relevance is that it failed to evolve the concept of militias as the balance of power between federal and state governments shifted irrevocably in favor of the former. I would argue that few civilians that pay attention to current events have much difficulty understanding just how big of a problem even a marginally run insurgency can create for a modern military. I would expect those problems to be significantly worse with a ferocious gun culture and the issue of deploying against your own people.

In addition, I think it’s impossible to gauge the real world effectiveness of America’s military on its home ground. It is my contention that the backbone of technology, logistics, and infrastructure that makes it so overwhelming when deployed would be extremely vulnerable at home. That gets especially interesting when you consider the number of civilians that the Department of Defense relies on, many of whom are independent contractors. All very cost effective or something (I have my doubts about the primary rationale that is repeated over and over again), but something of a question mark when it comes to domestic repression.

This is not to say I endorse the madness of a bunch of hillbillies running around in fatigues bitching about how the black helicopters of the UN must be stopped at all cost. I’m just trying to make it clear that in raw military terms, I don’t believe the issue is half as open and shut as people make it out to be.

Yeah. They are realistically for ranges or for law enforcement, only. Using an Assault Rifle for self defense is a good way to end up with a murder charge, no matter how it went down. No attorney on earth can save you when the prosecutor holds up an evil black gun and points you out as the killer, regardless of the circumstances. gg appeal to emotion.

Sure. The government allows you to try an obtain a license to get one. But chances are good you either live in an area where the SAW is illegal to own, or the hassle to get one is so ridiculous you HAVE to be a beardo in fatigues in order to really want to jump thru all those hoops.

You don’t technically need a license, just jump through a bunch of tax and regulatory hoops.

By the way, here’s a SAW for $38k.

As one whose heart bleeds fairly liberally, I don’t give a shit how many guns someone wants to own. Does Obama even have an opinion here? He almost never brought it up that I can remember.

Well, okay, you don’t need a license, you need a tax stamp… but whatever, it’s a lot of work for very overpriced way of putting holes in paper.

Aside from a few votes and coming from an extremely anti-gun region: no, he doesn’t, and that’s my point. There’s a little bit of a hivemind going on out there that it is inevitable anti-gun legislation will get passed, and market prices have reacted.

To the hivemind’s credit, it is most likely the vocal anti-gun members of Congress that will make the push. It’s up to Obama to keep them on track to important issues. I’m not exactly sure how he’d veto a new AWB that landed on his desk, so he has to nip it in the bud early. I don’t think that’s even likely to happen either; Pelosi’s old enough to remember '94.

My understanding of Heller was that it basically settles the issue in conservatives’ favor, no exceptions. Also remember that Obama praised the decision when it was made. I really think concerns about the gun-friendliness of an Obama administration should be pretty mild.

Of course, I’m pretty pro-gun myself (though I don’t own any, I don’t want to restrict others’ choices), so I may just be projecting my position onto my preferred candidate in the absence of a strong sign one way or the other.

Yeah, honestly speaking, gun control is the least of our problems, and is a really good way for Democrats to rile up/antagonize potential allies that vote on that single issue. It’s just not worth the political capital expenditure, considering the other huge issues facing us like getting a decent health care financing system in place.

I don’t think that the opinion of anyone else here as to the importance of second amendment rights as a last-ditch mechanism for resisting the govt. carries as much weight as Lizard_King’s. Sorry, Lh’owon.