Instagram/Snapchat & teenagers

[ChristienMurawski]

@CLWheeljack

They used a minimally secret password on the router admin controls, and basically said: “If you can disable this yourself, then your savvy enough to use the internet however you want. If you can’t or don’t want to bother, then don’t.”

I have an acquaintance who is a retired detective. He basically did something similar with his kid, only with his handgun in a gun safe and with a tough numerical password. Then he challenged his kid to break into it (I think with a monetary reward). In both instances, I think, a dangerous game.

@CLWheeljack

A hard rule of “If I pay for it, I can look at your phone whenever I want” is probably a good one, but one that may be hard to reinforce. You also have to be savvy enough with those apps to poke around.

Absolutely true. It’s up to us to keep up, not only with the technology, but with creating an environment wherein he feels like he can trust us.

Which is why I like what @LightChair says below as well.

@LightChair

but it is a new time. A time where social media became a part of our life. Don’t make your child a black sheep, he needs to be with other teens in some parts.

I appreciate the advice from you folks. It will help us as the conversation progresses. It’s not a one-time conversation, but will need to be revisited and adjusted as time progresses. So any ideas like these really do help me out.

-xtien

[TurinTur]

@ChristienMurawski

My teenage son wants to get Instagram and Snapchat accounts

(sorry for the hot take)

Lol, what the hell your teenage son is asking his parents about what apps he can use.

Does he also have to ask permission whenever he is going to talk with any of his friends?

[CLWheeljack]

@ChristienMurawski

Then he challenged his kid to break into it (I think with a monetary reward). In both instances, I think, a dangerous game.

While I get what you’re getting at…those seem pretty different to me.

The thing about internet parental controls is that the kid is going to break out of that walled garden eventually. These days, a phone with a data connection is going to break out if that’s what the kids really wants. The point of requiring the kid to get into the router settings is several-fold:

• it represents a general level of familiarity with the technology. Any parental controls is bypassable somehow, so there’s already an unavoidable “technical savviness” test inherent in using the internet. This challenge is just structuring it a little more explicitly and bringing the goal down somewhat
• in order to change the router settings, you need to know where those settings are. Today, that probably means doing some specific googling. I.e. you’re demonstrating that you can use the internet in a (relatively) sophisticated way. Youre using the tools that you’re trying to unlock in order to do the unlocking. It’s basically an RPG skill check, with a level up gated behind the check. Being able to get the relevant information shows a faculty with navigating the internet.

You’re testing the same kinds of skills as you’re expecting them to use on the internet. You can definitely argue that the specific barrier is too low and doesn’t demonstrate sufficient mastery to be allowed broader internet access. But, most barriers in IT are to prevent hacos of opportunity. A sufficiently motivated hacker is getting into your stuff no matter what you try to do, so security is mostly about preventing yourself from being the low hanging fruit, and preventing crimes of opportunity.

On the other hand, the handgun safe was an arbitrary challenge with a reward that was completely disjoint from the challenge itself. I personally don’t think that it’s true that a kid is necessarily going to get access to a handgun eventually (this may vary by family), so to me, a cash prize is actually creating an additional incentive to get into the safe, rather than making safe access be the prize in and of itself.

Now, if it’s considered a bounty, like a white-hat hacking thing, I could see that. Like “I want to make sure you can’t get in there, so I’m going to make it worth your while to try your hardest and tell me rather than to try your hardest and keep it a secret. If you do succeed, I know I need to add additional security.”

[ChristienMurawski]

@CLWheeljack

While I get what you’re getting at…those seem pretty different to me.

The thing about internet parental controls is that the kid is going to break out of that walled garden eventually.

I know you’re right about these things, and you make very good points. I was being somewhat deliberately extreme. If you tell a kid that once he gets out of the garden he can do whatever he wants, that’s a little dangerous. Although I do like you using the word garden, because it calls to mind Genesis (the book, not the device).

My point is that I know my kid is going to test those bounds, and being open in communication with him tells him I know that. Also being open with what his boundaries are at each age helps him know what’s expected. If I tell him why I’m imposing those boundaries, and don’t just say, “Because I said so!” then he can process my reasoning as a parent. He knows there is some flexibility. Some chance for debate and change over time. And I think that establishes trust.

Perhaps I’m being naive. My kid could be a demon while at school and with his friends. But this is why we keep open communication with his teachers and the friends of his parents as much as possible, so we’ve got each others’ backs and he knows there’s accountability.

Still, you make some great points. Thanks again.

-xtien

[Penny_Dreadful]

@Timex

You can just screenshot from you phone and then you have a permanent record.

This will notify the other person, but you can always just take a picture of your screen with another device if you don’t want them knowing. Can’t ever close the analog hole…

[stusser]

My understanding is Snapchat is old news now and everybody is on Instagram. I say this not really understanding any of the social media things myself, although I do subscribe to a bunch of hot chicks on Instagram to ogle them in swimwear. That may actually be the point of Instagram, if so I guess I’m a social media maven.

[Navaronegun]

@stusser

That may actually be the point of Instagram, if so I guess I’m a social media maven.

Are you on The Twitter?? How do I mail a letter on the Twitter??

[ChristienMurawski]

@stusser

I guess I’m a social media maven.

You should do a TV show called “That’s So Maven” where you get into all kinds of Internet hijinks.

-xtien

[stusser]

I don’t get the reference!

I’ve heard references to that before, but never bothered to look it up, and I’m not about to start now!

[Navaronegun]

@stusser

I’ve heard references to that before, but never bothered to look it up, and I’m not about to start now!

https://i.imgur.com/ryUlsTH.gif

[ChristienMurawski]

@stusser

I don’t get the reference!

If you’re talking to me, then I mean this:

That's So Raven (TV Series 2003–2007) ⭐ 6.7 | Comedy, Family, Fantasy

If you’re talking to Poster 10 from Navarone, I cannot help you.

-xtien

[Navaronegun]

@ChristienMurawski

then I mean this

Xtien, one cannot unsee things, once they have been seen…

"That's So Raven" Cake Fear (TV Episode 2005) ⭐ 8.3 | Comedy, Family, Fantasy

[Editer]

For what it’s worth, keeping kids off Instagram/Snapchat is akin to telling kids they couldn’t watch TV or talk with their friends on the phone when we were kids. I resisted letting my kid on Snapchat for a while, but eventually gave in and just talked to him about not being stupid in how he used it.

Basically, the deals on his phone are that I can look at his accounts any time I want (so I can go into Instagram and see his “stupid memes” second account, etc.) and he has to leave the Find Friends tracking on. I let him keep his privacy for the most part out of respect, but about once a year I’ll snoop through it just to remind him I might do that and to stay smart in how he uses it.

[ChristienMurawski]

@Editer

For what it’s worth, keeping kids off Instagram/Snapchat is akin to telling kids they couldn’t watch TV or talk with their friends on the phone when we were kids.

I have to disagree with you here, Denny. In general the TV shows you watch can’t stalk you, and when we were kids, the content was pretty heavily restricted. I mean, I watched “The Benny Hill Show” over and over certain that somebody’s top was eventually going to come off…but that never happened. So maybe you can use the word “akin” but I’d say as far as kin are concerned, those are distant relatives.

@Editer

Basically, the deals on his phone are that I can look at his accounts any time I want (so I can go into Instagram and see his “stupid memes” second account, etc.) and he has to leave the Find Friends tracking on. I let him keep his privacy for the most part out of respect, but about once a year I’ll snoop through it just to remind him I might do that and to stay smart in how he uses it.

This is exactly how I deal with it. Spot on. Even down to the “stupid memes” thing, which is one of the reasons my kid wants to have one of these accounts. He wants to share stupid memes. They love their memes (like we don’t). Surprisingly, a lot of their memes are political.

-xtien

[ChristienMurawski]

@krayzkrok

The other issue is that any potentially dodgy person can “follow” your account if they find it, and it’s not that hard to find if you use hashtags (which you do). You have a feed of people who follow you, so it’s easy to find these people and look at their photos, and follow them back if you wish, which can expose your feed to basically anything, so this is where the nefariousness can be easily found. I am obviously very careful whose accounts I follow, but I’ve actually had a “friend” post something really NSFW on my feed once when I wasn’t expecting it. If your account is private then it’s much harder to randomly follow someone, but I’m not sure how secure this is, I’ve never used the feature.

This is hugely helpful, Adam. I’m going to have a discussion with his mom about this over the weekend, and I’m definitely going to bring this up because I didn’t think of it. It makes sense if you game it out, but I wouldn’t have thought of it.

@krayzkrok

Be aware that a lot of kids have multiple accounts; a “safe” account with good, wholesome family stuff on it that you show your parents, and a second or third alt where they might post stuff they don’t want you to see… unless you know how to use the app I guess. Not sure what you can do as a parent to control / monitor this, but I’m sure some Googling will shed a bit of light on the details.

A couple of people have touched on this, including @Editer in the post after yours, and I have to remember to bring this up too. As I said somewhere above, I think when @ArmandoPenblade was talking about the “arms race” he went through with his dad, that it’s my responsibility to keep as up to date as I can on these apps. My kid will always be better than I am in that regard, I realize that, so that’s why I also need to make sure there’s trust there, and not just a “Because I said so!” mentality on my part.

There was a part of the movie Screenagers, which I think I talked about with @Clay (perhaps on Slack, maybe here), where a young girl was tricked into sending pictures of herself in her bra to some stranger, and then that stranger started blackmailing her. I can’t quite remember the details, but she had done exactly what her parents told her not to do. As scared as she was, she could still go to them and admit it, and they could protect her. In fact, something along those lines happened to somebody here, now that I think of it.

My point being, I have to strike a balance between monitoring and communicating with my kid as best I can.

You all are helping me with both, a lot.

-xtien

[KevinC]

@ChristienMurawski

I have to disagree with you here, Denny. In general the TV shows you watch can’t stalk you, and when we were kids, the content was pretty heavily restricted.

I don’t think he was saying the consequences of Instagram/Snapchat are akin to TV or telephone, just the impact that such a restriction has on today’s kids. Snapchat is a core part of how they communicate and socialize with each other.

[Navaronegun]

@KevinC

I don’t think he was saying the consequences of Instagram/Snapchat are akin to TV or telephone, just the impact that such a restriction has on today’s kids. Snapchat is a core part of how they communicate and socialize with each other.

I agree with Kev, Xtien. I’d say it is even more of a Social-stunter than the TV example. I’d say not being on SM as a teen today is the equivalent of not being allowed to see Star Wars in 1977 and being 10 years old.

[Mark_Asher]

My advice would be to set some limits, at least. Don’t take the phone to bed because it’s time to get your sleep and when it’s time to study put the phone down out of reach. You might get pushback on the latter for a variety of reasons – my homework instructions are on my phone, I need to ask a classmate something about the assignment, etc. These are all legitimate reasons but in action what I’ve seen is the child is constantly shifting attention from schoolwork to the phone and back again. That may be reinforcing a shorter attention span.

I suppose as the older, crankier fellow, what I see is that people are too absorbed in their phones and seem to lack a bit of balance. Of course here I sit in front of a PC. What I like to remind myself of is that cliche that at the end of my days I’m not going to wish I spent even more time staring at one kind of screen or another.

[Editer]

@Navaronegun

I agree with Kev, Xtien. I’d say it is even more of a Social-stunter than the TV example. I’d say not being on SM as a teen today is the equivalent of not being allowed to see Star Wars in 1977 and being 10 years old.

Right. I wasn’t comparing the content, but rather the fact that it’s the standard social currency with today’s teens. So if you’re not part of it, then you’re “that kid whose parents don’t even let him use Instagram.” And “OMG, did you see that Kanye meme?” is today’s “Did you see the episode of the Brady Bunch where Marsha got hit in the face with the football?” You miss the common dialogue, and you’re also not part of the mainstream group. Not that teenagers care at all about that stuff. :)

As far as concern about weirdo stalkers, or even online harassers from RL, he can make his IG account private so that only his friends can see the content, and he can choose who to accept as friends.

Frankly, it comes down to communicating with your kid, knowing your kid, and trusting your kid. In my own case, I think the worst thing I ever did content-wise for my kid wasn’t social-media-related, but rather cancelling my Rhapsody/Pandora (which have “radio version” filters) and caving to his request to join Spotify (which has the “dirty versions” of songs, but which every teenager uses, as sharing playlists there is today’s making a cassette for a friend). He loves hip hop, and the stuff he listens to makes me feel like the old man on the lawn. Because while our parents/grandparents got upset about songs with innuendo, a lot of modern hip hop music is flat out misogynistic, gynecological, and spells everything out directly.* It’s almost funny to listen to it’s so direct and over the top – would be funny if my kid didn’t know the words by heart.

But while he listens to a lot of music that, to me, ranges in content from sophomoric to appalling, his treatment of his friends and how he acts around people is in no way affected by it. Despite how women are often portrayed in that music (that Shawty is portrayed as a full-on ho, let me tell you), he’s respectful of his girl friends and protective of them in groups. He avoids the parties where kids are drinking/huffing/etc. even with all the music about sipplin’ slizzard or whatever that is. :) Just as Rocky Horror didn’t drive me and my friends to cannibalism, orgies, and (not that there’s anything wrong with that) transvestitism, his music is just entertainment to him, and exposure isn’t harming him.

But for some kids, hearing that music all the time would normalize the behaviors for them, and it might be to their benefit to limit their exposure to it.

Some kids are going to get on Instagram and just goof with their friends. A few kids will probably poke around and find things like cam model accounts and other inappropriate content – again, it’s knowing where your kid’s curiosities and limits lie.

I do agree with Mark about the phone at bedtime, though. My kid’s 16 now and dealing with my divorce, so I’m not going to drop new restrictions on him, but if there was one thing I’d change it would be the phone at bed, because what used to be reading Kindle books before sleep is now chatting with friends before bedtime.

• Not dissing all hip hop by any means. My kid’s made me a Logic fanboy.

[ArmandoPenblade]

@Editer

I do agree with Mark about the phone at bedtime, though. My kid’s 16 now and dealing with my divorce, so I’m not going to drop new restrictions on him, but if there was one thing I’d change it would be the phone at bed, because what used to be reading Kindle books before sleep is now chatting with friends before bedtime.

As a guy who’d crawl into bed each night in his high school years with the cordless to chat with a handful of close friends each night after mandatory computer-shutdown-time passed and I was pulled away from a dozen AIM/ICQ/forum conversations I’d be juggling, nighttime-friend-chats are essential to successful living! ;-)