Interesting book about us godless heathens and our lack of morality

Having your money stolen by criminals is a small price to pay for not having your money stolen by the government.

KRF (The Christian Democrats) fell to 5,1% in the latest polls, but due to our system of proportional representation they get more seats in the parliament than they deserve.

Oh, and don’t believe the “proof” told you by your drinking buddies, the bars here close at 03.00 and the christians have nothing to do with that :)

Actually at the time my brother ran one of them and because they were outside some circle on the map they had to close at 01.00 and then everybody would move inside the circle and continue drinking to 03.00 - he blamed KRF. But then he isn’t the most reliable witness when it comes to social issues and also it was years ago.

… of course in the civilized part of the world not run by fundies, bars can stay open till after 03.00 ;-)

The people just brew their own booze.

Why is that stupid article bitching about our weather?

Because it’s crappy?

Have you been outdoors the past couple of days or has all the sunshine stayed on this side of Öresund?

This is just to fool us to pack away the winter clothing after which it will hit us with a fortnight of solid rain and subzero nights.

The WW2 German Army (not SS) belt buckle said “Gott Mit Uns” (“God With Us”). Funny that.


krise madsen

Yes Hitler was not anti-religious. Anti-catholic maybe. But Hitler was quite fond of invoking God in his speeches and even if he was not the most spiritual of men he did beleive in the supernatural. IIRC he had some grand scheme to nationalize the church so that church doctrine would reflect and support Nazi ideology.

I’m not sure that invoking god makes Hitler religious, Jefferson and other American founding fathers invoked god regularly as well, and weren’t necessarily religious. Internal Nazi documentation (for example, Goebbels’ diaries) indicates that the Nazi party was virulently anti-Christian, and specifically anti-Catholic. As far as I understand, the Nazis felt that taking on the church while Operation Barbarossa was still going on was too risky, since so many civilians and old guard generals were devout Protestants. But Goebbels talked a LOT about how he was going to come down like a hammer on the churches once Bolshevism had been defeated and the Jewish Problem had been solved. And he wasn’t only talking about Catholicism.

Yes, Goebbels was much more radical than Hitler, but Goebbels wanted National Socialism to be THE state religion, and he constantly complained about religion being a thorn in his side that he couldn’t deal with yet because it would severely affect the morale of the people.

I didn’t say he was religious, just that he wasn’t really anti-religious. He almost certainly was not an atheist.

Yes, Goebbels was much more radical than Hitler, but Goebbels wanted National Socialism to be THE state religion, and he constantly complained about religion being a thorn in his side that he couldn’t deal with yet because it would severely affect the morale of the people.

This is partly true, Goebbels himself was not an atheist and beleived the church was important. The Nazis had no intention to eliminate the church, but they did want to control it. Catholicism they could not control so it probably would have been eliminated.

Edit: also as far as I know the Nazi party was not in general anti-Christian, as most of them were in fact practising Protestants of varying stripes.

There was an existing precedent for Catholic persecution being used successfully to invoke the sense of an internal threat in Germany dating back at least to Bismarck’s Kulturkampf, suggesting that it was more about spacing out attacks on competing systems of control they were unable to coopt than any specific atheist puritanism.

I don’t think it’s particularly important if Nazis, Stalinists, and other comparable regimes were atheist or not. It doesn’t particularly reflect on atheism itself, because atheism isn’t really an ideology in the same sense a religion is. It’s not prescriptive–it doesn’t tell people to do anything, good or bad. It’s merely descriptive. It’s only the other ideologies overlaid on, or attached to, atheism that can be held as responsible for evil acts.

This contrasts with religious belief. Religion IS prescriptive, by definition. It tells people to do things, and therefore can share part of the blame when people do bad things (and part of the credit when people do good things).

That’s why it’s nonsensical to say that atheism can cause evil. At most, one could argue that atheism excludes religious belief, and that certain types of religious belief can prevent other, more harmful ideologies from taking hold.

I agree.
Looking at the Scandinavian countries in this regard is interesting, because it takes it a step further. Atheism is a concious discarding of religion where what seems to happen here is that people, just don’t care.

They don’t discard religion, it’s just that religion has no bearing on their life anymore.

If I’d wager a guess I think the reason religion lost it’s hold in Scandinavia is that we readily accepted a culture of rational paternalism post WW2. That’s essentially what the welfare society is about. We trust in the state to be rational and know the best policies to enact and in turn we accept a heavy tax burden. Since the system worked, and worked very well, the beliefs were reinforced.

Rationality leaves little place for religion, and even less in a society where the traditional community functions of the church were taken over by the state. The paternalism also enforced a social pressure to conform, which meant that once taken root people who kept to their old beliefs were seen as odd or stupid.

And it’s still true, despite the fact that our societies are much more individualistic and have absorbed a great number (some greater than others) of actively religious immigrants. Being religious is seen as a quaint hobby at best. If you try to make it more than that then everyone around you will disapprove. Discussing your religion with others is the social equivalent of farting in a crowded room

I find it amusing that only one or two Americans participated in this thread, and none dared say anything bad about religion.