iPhone 8 Apple 2017


#361

I realize that, point still holds. The few people who use old phones/software aren’t worth supporting, most people upgrade (be it hardware or software). Not to mention that’s pretty much every company’s business model, make the customer want to upgrade. He’s going to be sorely disappointed if he thinks Android is any different.


#362

I’ve still got an iPad 3rd Gen that’s stuck on iOS 9 in use. Some apps don’t work, but things like Netflix still do. It’s on the app makers to decide how far back they’ll support to a large extent.


#363

Same here. Claiming that Apple made these devices “obsolete” because they’re not going to make all versions of iOS run on them indefinitely is absurd. Those old versions of iOS are still perfectly functional on their hardware, and app developers can choose to continue to support apps all the way back to iOS 3. I have an iPad 3 and a first-gen iPad mini that we still use regularly. Some of the latest apps might not work, and some apps might be stuck on old versions, but Jesus, this is the way ALL computers work. And, LOL, if you think the answer is to switch to Android, where you’re lucky to get a SINGLE update your OS on most phones–let alone four years of updates–best of luck.


#364

Well no, actually. There’s no reason why Apple couldn’t have continued to support 32bit executables on iOS11. They just cut them off. It was a bitch move.

As to supporting old devices, the latest version of Windows10 will run just fine on a 15 year old computer. Again, Apple chooses not to support its old hardware indefinitely. They’re better than Google at that, certainly. But not great. It is absolutely forced obsolescence.


#365

It wasn’t a ‘bitch’ move. If you’re not supporting 64-bit with your app, you haven’t updated it in over 4 years: it’s been abandoned by its developers. Want to run an out-of-date app that’s effectively abandoned? Don’t update to iOS 11. No one’s forcing you, and they’ll continue to run just fine. But a transition to 64-bit across the board helps improve performance of present and future Apple devices in a number of ways, as well as eliminate the vast majority of App Store bloat. Yeah, some of us who want to stay on the bleeding edge of iOS devices lost some apps, and some of those I miss too… but it was ultimately a good move, and one that was made with PLENTY of warning to developers.

That said, even if you argue that Apple should have supported 32-bit indefinitely on all its hardware and software, the fact that they didn’t isn’t “forced obsolescence.” Forced obsolescence would be, say, a computer that was designed with a hardware flaw so it automatically broke as soon as it exited warranty; a device continuing to work just as well as it ever did with the software it shipped with, and supported for YEARS with literally free updates adding substantially to its initial feature set doesn’t qualify.


#366

I think there are plenty of things to diss Apple on about how they do business but supporting hardware shouldn’t be one of them. I think they were pretty good with waiting till they did to drop 32bit support. As many have already pointed out most Android phones are lucky to get more than one major OS update.


#367

How is that not Apple’s fault? It may be a good business decision for them but that does not mean they are not at fault for that decision when it inconveniences customers.


I currently have 32 app updates on my phone that I cannot execute because of the OS. It seems that they choose to no longer support the older iOS. Is it an immediate problem? No, the phone still works and those apps work. Is it a potential time bomb? Yes, because if the phone has to be reset then there is no way to re-download those apps and the truly awful iTunes software does not work properly. If a company (ex. Uber) decides to no longer support that version of the app, then I could easily be in a bad position since I travel for business in unfamiliar cities.

I think it is an exceptionally poor business process to abandon a fairly sizable segment of your customers who spent a fair amount of money on your products in recent years. Apple obviously does not believe that to be the case. That is their prerogative. It is mine to think that Apple sucks a giant dick and to buy a different product.

As to Android support, having to replace a $200 phone every 3-4 years is much more palatable than having to replace an $800 phone every 3-4 years. Apple does not have inexpensive options.


#368

Apple does support it. Xcode allows devs to compile for both. It’s literally (in most cases) just a different selection from a drop down. With old Xcode projects, it does not update to 64-bit by default. Developers have chosen to abandon the 32-bit route when they compile their apps. The company I work for gladly puts out 64-bit and 32-bit binaries for our games. It does not cost us anything at all to do that nor does it require any more time in testing, etc.

The only issues we run into are when we are trying to support iOS 7 and lower, due to some enhancements in iOS that were introduced in iOS 8.

Even if I started writing a brand new app today, all I would have to do to support your device is select a different selection from a dropdown. Now, there are new libraries, etc. that don’t work on older devices, just like Cortana doesn’t work on Windows 95. When devs choose to require those libraries to take advantage of newer additions to the iOS APIs, then they can’t compile for older devices. That’s the developer’s choice, however.


#369

What about the iPhone SE? $350 to buy it outright. Same form factor as your iPhone 5 and will run 64-bit apps just fine.

If you’ve made up your mind to go Android and updates are important, I believe Google promised three years of updates for the Pixel 2.


#370

It was absolutely a bitch move. Nobody cares about ancient apps because they’re basically obsolete garbage, but there are a shitton of awesome games that no longer run on current versions of iOS. Those games are now gone, forever. Breaking backwards compatibility sucks.


#371

It is not a sizable market, though. The people who still need to run 32b apps, or don’t update to the latest iOS are outliers. Look at the chart on this post. The “older than iOS 10” section of the graph is 4.69 percent. Apple does give a warning in one of the later 10.x versions that "the app may run slow because it hasn’t been updated.’ Now, they should have said, “this app won’t work on iOS 11.”

As others have mentioned, 32b apps haven’t been updated in forever. It sucks. I use the Arkham Horror app from Fantasy Flight and have an iPad I keep at iOS 10 just to run it.

Then just buy the product that works for you. You don’t need to get into attacks on whether a company 'sucks a giant dick" because their business decision don’t align with your personal needs. This is why there is choice in the marketplace.


#372

Perhaps I do not understand the chart. I have iOS 10. I cannot download iOS 11. That means there are 48% of people like me who either cannot or have not upgraded to 11. That seems sizable.

Again it is just simply a rant on my end. I do not believe that $600+ devices should be rendered obsolete after 3 or 4 years. Seems to me that that spending that kind of money should buy you a few more years but perhaps I am just an old curmudgeon.


#373

It’s not the devices, it’s the apps. I have an iPhone 6+ which is 3 years old. The main reason I am getting an 8+ is for the better camera that shoots RAW. If my iPhone 6 shot RAW, I would stick with it. I have had none of the performance issues some people talk about with the iPhone 6 on iOS 11.

You can’t blame Apple for not going out of their way to support apps that developers aren’t going out of their way to update. The Arkham Horror app I was referring to was last updated in May 2012. Five freaking years ago. Their website says it won’t ever be updated for iOS 11.

Apple can’t, and shouldn’t, hold back on moving to a 64b platform because of dead apps by developers who don’t update their apps. The inconvenience root cause isn’t Apple, it’s the developers not updating their apps.


#374

No. Games are not like utility apps. When was the last time Deus Ex was updated? If Windows cut-off support for 32bit programs, would we blame freaking Ion Storm for not updating it? Ridiculous.


#375

So, what’s the cut off? Does MS not move to a fully 64b OS because of 17 year old software? That said, with Windows there are ways around it and Windows is old enough that compatibility is a longer, separate discussion. But what about video drivers? Do we complain if the latest Nvidia driver breaks a 17-year old game. There are some games I owned I’m pretty sure don’t work on Windows 10.

With iOS, if an app (game or otherwise) hasn’t been updated in 4 years, it’s clear the developer no longer cares or supports the app. It’s not even getting bug fixes. iOS doesn’t really have the legacy support issues Windows has, and the pace of yearly updates on iOS means older apps are going to left behind quickly. Even if iOS 11 didn’t eliminate 32b apps, the odds of there being a crippling bug breaking the app are pretty good anyway.

That said, I think Apple could have at least handled the communication around this better and warned people better about the impact. Checking for app compatibility was two levels deep in Settings.


#376

For god’s sake @Granath here’s a simple summary:

  1. Apple iPhone 5 - released September 2012. Made obsolete in September 2017 when IOS 11 did not support. Five years.
  2. Google Nexus 5 - the best, most supported android phone - released in October 31, 2013. Made obsolete in August 2016 when Android N did not support. Two years, 10 months.
  3. All other Android phones - Laughably worse. Yes, really.

#377

The contention doesn’t appear to care about OS upgrades but programs. Though I’m not sure its as much as a problem I think? Surely Apple would let you download the latest compatible version even as phones continue to upgrade into the future. AKA this shouldn’t happen?

Though I’m not entirely sure.

This is funny bullshit though.


#378

Windows is a fully 64bit OS. You can run 32bit executables on a 64bit system.

You don’t get to complain when normal updates don’t test against ancient programs and accidentally break them. No sane person would say that, which makes it a straw man argument.

You do get to complain when the OS vendor DELIBERATELY breaks compatibility, as Apple did here.


#379

That came out wrong, I meant a change to an API introduces a crippling bug in an app that hasn’t been maintained.

But, Apple doesn’t come into people’s houses and force them to upgrade. I don’t think Apple stealth upgrades to full versions of iOS. I know they can nag you and suggest you should upgrade. If the new version of an OS breaks an app you consider to be mission-critical*, don’t upgrade the OS. I generally recommend people wait for the .1 release to sort out these issues. Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons to upgrading or moving to a new platform.

That said, if the app you consider to be mission-critical, and it hasn’t been updated in years, that would concern me anyway.

*And, let’s face it, some games people consider mission-critical. We all have our vices.


#380

Ok now I’m curious. Are you saying that Apple doesn’t allow these apps to run on older IOS? If so I don’t get it, Netflix still runs on my iPad gen 1 - though it is with the old interface from years ago.

Or is it that I can’t download and install Netflix on it today, because the version on the store is not compatible? I don’t know. I don’t really expect Apple to stock older versions of software in the store and have it figure out what to install. Do we expect Best Buy to stock Office 2003 so that it works on Windows XP machines?