Who threw the Kzinti into the SFB mix/'verse/melange, Rich? Pournelle?
Star Fleet Battles seems to consider some, but not all of The Animated Series , as being a canon material source, thus leading to the inclusion of aliens such as the Kzinti.
Yeah, Slaver Weapon, right. I always forget about those.
Lets move this to TOS thread, because I think we are going get deep into this
SciFi sense tingles, pokes into the thread.
What’s all this about Pournelle? I read a lot of Niven/Pournelle when I was younger (just the novels and short stories, I didn’t even know Pournelle wrote a column until I peaked into the wiki).
The wiki paints him as pretty conservative, is there more…?
No, that is why I keep bringing up this point. It gets conflated really quick in these types of discussions.
Ah, yeah. I make a conscious effort to not “peer behind the curtains” when it comes to most writers and artists, it keeps my sanity points from dipping below the brink.
I prefer to know if a living writer thinks I am worthy of living and is a member of the human species. It’s not something I like finding out years later but before I invest even a moment of time with their work.
Well, the start of the whole “The personal is the political in art” started with the man with the cat (I know you know) who I am not fond of in the first place (who expanded on The Frankfurt School).
I haven’t read this whole thread, but has anyone recommended Michel Houllebecq’s “H.P. Lovecraft: Against the World, Against Life”? If you’re interested in critical reading of Lovecraft, and how his racism, misanthropy, and weird childhood informed his work, it’s really quite excellent. Houllebecq is a deeply misanthropic writer himself, and his take on Lovecraft is colored by his own obsessions and deeply negative view of the world, but no matter how you slice it, it’s a super-interesting book.
If someone already brought this up, never mind, and I blame the difficulty of trying to search for a name that ridiculous to spell.
Great suggestion. And it is marvelous that someone (Houllebecq ) who studied under the man with the cat (who I cannot stand) enters this topic. :)
The Godfather of making the artist’s personal political. Big Daddy hisself.
That’s a good two sentence summary.
George R. R. Martin obituary of Pournelle is a great read
His politics were not my politics. He was a rock-ribbed conservative/ libertarian, and I’m your classic bleeding-heart liberal… but we were both fans, and professional writers, and ardent members of SFWA, and we loved SF and fantasy and fandom, and that was enough. You don’t need to agree with someone on everything to be able to respect them. And while MOTE IN GOD’S EYE may not have won the Hugo in its year, it remains one of the great classics of space opera, destined to be read and re-read for as long as people read science fiction (it IS an honor just to be nominated).
This was written barely a year after GRRM fought tooth and nail the Sad Puppies insurgency.
Mote in God’s Eye is a good book, granted.
That book has not been mentioned before. Thank you for that.
I looked it up on Amazon, not at all surprised that there are some angry fans that don’t like the POV, but I might give it a go later. I am sure there are some intriguing reasons why he turned out the way he was, but it’s not a excuse nor is it okay to downplay it because of his upbringing and view.
PM Mote is a fantastic novel. Classic. Hugo award winner and I think nebula as well. One of my favorites. But other than that small point I agree with you completely.
How did this thread get to Mote in God’s Eye?
I think all of us are sorta crazy.
Because I think we all* agree** that Lovecraft was racist, that it impacted his work, and that the decision to enjoy a work from someone who has troublesome views is a largely personal decision that reasonable people can draw the line at different places over. And that this means that using or adapting said works benefits from acknowledging these things so you can avoid or engage with them accordingly
So discussing what artists reach the tipping point, and for what reasons, becomes a far more interesting discussion.
*almost all
**in that denying the issue, or calling for complete removal of all influence from the public sphere, aren’t really positions anyone here is advocating.
An interesting point above was about Orson Scott Card – now there’s a guy I am grumpy about. yet his books are very ….let’s just say open minded. Mostly.
The best kind of crazy.
Mote was a favorite of mine, as well as other Niven/Pournelle collabs like Footfall and Lucifer’s Hammer. I didn’t recall seeing any overtly terrible ideologies in those books at the time, but I was young… hence my earlier question regarding Pournelle.
Now I have to see if my copy of Mote has survived 4 moves in 8 years.