It's time to have a 2020 Presidential Election thread


#242

Thank you! This is the simple explanation, but holy forking shirt balls try telling that to the media. Mission accomplished I guess though, Warren is now likely toast (she may have been anyway, I don’t know.)

If I had to guess, the nomination will likely end up being between Harris and Biden if he runs, or Beto.

Edit: A Dave Roberts rant, he’s had a few on the topic of right wing media; the one behind the spoiler (for length) is the one I could find goggling.

Preview:

We saw it play out recently with the “Pocahontas” thing. Yeah, yeah, Warren botched it, but why did she have to address it at all? Why did it get anywhere? Why didn’t every adult human being simply laugh dismissively when it came up? Because reporters indulge the RW. Endlessly. There is no conservative media. It’s the conservative movement - in media, politics, & think tanks, lobbyists & businesspeople - it’s all the same

Summary

This wasn’t one of the biggest episodes of the campaign, but it was one of the most revealing. Right-wing scumbags made something up out of whole cloth, the media indulged it, and it made a real difference in public perception.
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It happens over & over again: right-wing scumbags make something up, the media indulges it, it turns out to be BS, but the damage is already done. Again & again & again & again, since the '90s, at least. It’s become the dominant dynamic in political media. I’ve ranted & raved about it for over a decade now, to no effect. It’s beyond clear what’s happening, but reporters still line up for it - to be played, spun, deceived, used as tools in a reactionary anti-democratic effort designed, in part, to destroy the institution they serve. I just feel helpless at this point. What would penetrate, say, the politics desk at NYT? They keep fucking up in the same ways, getting the same critiques, & rejecting the critiques – getting angrier at the left for critiquing them than at the right for playing them repeatedly. What would it take? Democracy is being hurt by this. Media’s being hurt by it. Our ability to act as a coherent polity on the basis of shared facts is being hurt. All because the mainstream political press is terrified of being scolded by the right for bias.

We saw it play out recently with the “Pocahontas” thing. Yeah, yeah, Warren botched it, but why did she have to address it at all? Why did it get anywhere? Why didn’t every adult human being simply laugh dismissively when it came up? Because reporters indulge the RW. Endlessly. There is no conservative media. It’s the conservative movement - in media, politics, & think tanks, lobbyists & businesspeople - it’s all the same, an ethnonationalist movement that sees itself in a zero-sum struggle for dominance. It has abandoned shared standards of accuracy. Just glance over here at this thread, as a conservative “reporter” pulls something out of her ass & the entire movement immediately begins spreading it. It’s just one little example - happens a dozen times a day.


Oliver Darcy @oliverdarcy

What an irresponsible thing to tweet with no evidence. The reporter who was there, @davidgshortell, said on CNN that the crew was staked out at Stone’s house this morning after CNN reporters noticed unusual grand jury activity in DC on Thursday & thought something could happen.

Greta Van Susteren @greta
CNN cameras were at the raid of Roger Stone…so FBI obviously tipped off CNN…even if you don’t like Stone, it is curious why Mueller’s office tipped off CNN instead of trying to quietly arrest Stone;quiet arrests are more likely to be safe to the FBI and the person arrested

I don’t even know why I’m tweeting all this. Beats pounding my head on the table I guess. I’d just say, to political reporters who still have some aspirations at journalism: the RW is full of liars & fantasists. They’ve been lying to you for years. They’re going to lie more. We’re heading into the most important election of our lives. They’re going to be lying to you constantly , about everything, with the sole goal of winning a news cycle. You know this because they’ve lied to you hundreds of times in the recent past. When a movement and its representatives lie to you repeatedly, the reasonable thing to do is to start treating them like liars . Quit extending the presumption of credibility. Quit assuming good faith. ASSUME THEY ARE LYING until you have overwhelming proof otherwise.

Of course they will bitch & moan & accuse you of bias. Their only goal is winning & they’ve learned that bitching about bias serves that goal. Playing the refs is just another part of the scam, just another way to spin & manipulate you. Quit f’ing falling for it! Have some pride. Have some dignity. They hate you, they hate the values you stand for, they view you as an object to be manipulated for political gain. They crap all over you & your institutions, publicly, constantly! Yet you keep simpering for their approval. It’s gross. And that concludes today’s episode of Old Man Shouts at Clouds. </fin>


#243

I share your goal. I don’t think this will ruin her in the primaries. It would take a hell of a shallow hypocrite to have this matter in whether you support a smart woman who tirelessly fights for progressive values. I think such hypocrites are generally found among those who don’t vote Dem.


#244

This is the problem with America - the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law.

She does have Native American ancestry, so she isn’t “lying”. But the spirit of these laws was to give a leg up to “cultural” Native Americans, living under the systems and burdens of disprivilege as they did, and not a woman indistinguishable from whites enjoying all the benefits and opportunities this gave her.

It’s easy to say she’s manipulating the system, but it is really educated whites taking every advantage of the system available. So, for ex., i have (supposedly) 2-6% Jewish in me according to familytreedna. Is this real? No one in my family has any memory of any Jewish ancestors on any side. I’m surprisingly doubtful with one ancestry experiment, but supposing it is true, and this tiny percentage gave me opportunities as a college student, then would i take it? Surely i’m not culturally Jewish or have anything in common with Jewish people other than this silly dna test, but… would i have used it in college entrance applications, if it was relevant?

“I could have gone to Harvard if i had applied with Jewish ancestry, but it was wrong to do so!” I say to my client. "Anyway, would you like fries with that?"

The difference between making it and making it is such a wide gulf that people pull all the stops out, and that’s what she did. And, hey it worked, here she is on the national stage. The beginning of all things is small, ect.

Again, though, she isn’t lying she’s just going against the spirit of the programs. How many people go against the spirit of application laws, tax laws, opportunity laws? Spreads that net wide enough and you’re talking millions and millions. Every time your accountant advices you to do X or Y to hide away income, because it’s legal, not because it’s the intent of the program, is the exact same thing.

I would love to live in a world where the spirit of the law guided us as much as the letter of the law, since Republicanism is in essence using the latter to subvert the former. You could probably lasso half the current GOP caucus for campaign finance violations, if not more, using that criteria.


#245

And it’s also wrong.
From the WaPo article:
The Post reported that there’s no indication Warren had anything to gain by listing herself as “American Indian” on the card, as the data was used for statistical purposes only.

And from Oghier (a recovering lawyer)


#246

The whole Native American “controversy” is distracting from her wealth tax plan, making it easier for Fox & friends to crap on it. Today they kept talking about how it’s stealing hard-earned money from people that worked their butts off to get it. Which of course every wealthy person in America did - certainly no one just inherited it, or started on 3rd base, etc. Hard-working Americans, like Average Joe, shouldn’t have their extra billions taken away! Socialism, socialism, socialism. A very brief few seconds spent on how the tax breaks are so great for everyone, except one host that mentioned how the SALT changes will actually hurt a lot of people. That was quickly brushed over.


#247

Why do you keep posting this when there was no program for which she violated the spirit? She didn’t make the claim to gain admission to something. She answered a demographic question on a registration card that had no advantageous consequences.


#248

My feeling is that if your efforts helped root out $12B in financial fraud perpetrated against American citizens, I’m willing to forgive you one or two lies from a few decades ago. Even in the absolute worst case scenario that she knowingly lied to gain a small advantage on a college application or career track, it’s pretty small potatoes and a long time ago and dwarfed by the good that she has done since that point.


#249

Wasn’t the initial impetus for this years ago that she applied to colleges with NA ancestry checked? Not the current non-kerfluffle. Or am i misremembering?


#250

That was the claim, sure, but there’s no evidence that the claim is true.


#251

It is amazing how easily narratives stick, once they’re repeated often enough and picked up by multiple sources. If the people around us all seem to believe something, we’re certain it’s true.

We are fundamentally a species of rubes.


#252

One thing I"m learning from working with Dems is that there are plenty of hypocritical Dems- especially in the activist ranks.

The CFPB to me is Obama and Warren’s greatest legacy, especially when it gets rehabilitated post-Trump.


#253

So this Pocahontas shit is actually sticking.

Trump wins again, and the collective IQ of Americans drips down a little further.


#254

He only wins if people care enough to change their votes based on her flagrant hypocrisy over her exploitations, misrepresentations, and manipulations.


#255

Yep, sticking, apparently.


#256

butherregistrationcards


#257

The most uncharitable possible reading of Warren’s actions looks like tiddly-winks next to the weekly graft Trump engages in, never mind the racism, aspirational authoritarianism, and that whole Russia business. What’s really going on here is a single word (was “emails,” now “Pocahontas”) exploiting a cognitive glitch in the human brain.

On the one hand, there’s plenty of time to ditch Warren and pick someone else. On the other hand, whoever is nominated, there will always be a “Pocahontas.” Always. And as long as Democrats keep flinching like a beaten dog, we’re fucked.


#258

Pretty much this. It’ll be truancy prosecutions and weed prosecutions and advocating anti-sex worker laws for Harris. It’ll be Big Pharma for Booker. It’ll be that centrist tax shelter proposal for Klobuchar. It’ll be Wall Street for Gillibrand.

Hell, Democrats might as well nominate Joe Biden. There’s a pretty good chance that Republicans won’t be able to decide which of the 20-30 easily attached denigrating labels to put on him.


#259

True: like Trump, he may benefit from Three Stooges Syndrome.


#260

Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken but you can’t possibly think this given the contrary evidence?


#261

If this kinda bullshit works with people who should know better, then yep, this is how we got trump and may end up with trump for four more years.