Waves from Texas.
Really, though, it’s a domino effect. As above, it looks like Russian companies might literally be gearing up to rig elections in an entire state. What’s a state to do when its elections are rigged? What are adjacent states to do, when they have to suffer a government partially run by those these rigged elections put into power? There are lots of paths that problem goes down, and secession in blue states against a corrupt Federal government that is literally trying to rig elections against them suddenly seems like a plausible, if far fetched option. And once a couple dominoes fall having the whole thing unravel is quite a bit more possible - it’s not as if Hawaii leaves and the rest of the country would just shrug and go on.
And, honestly, ideologically progressives - especially young progressives - have little love for the US right now anyway. Whether their cynicism is warranted or not they would cheer loudly if they were living in CA or WA or NY and were able to leave.
CraigM
4159
Im going to be honest, if the deep south old confederate states wanted to leave? I’d say ‘hurry the fuck up and go you useless mooches’. And just give blanket amnesty from anyone fleeing the Alabama taliban in the new version of the union.
Because the truth is they need us more than we need them.
As i’ve said before at this point inviting them to leave might be the only way to save the rest of the country - and the world, tbh (since it would short circuit the Republican advantages in the Senate and the Electoral College).
They can’t have Virginia and Texas though. We could probably lop off the top half of Florida and give it to them in return.
And also, btw, inviting them to leave would really blow the current GOP up because it would be effectively going over their heads. Current GOP leaders would refuse the offer but their constituents would go * bat nuts* over the offer and force their hand whether they wanted it or not. The majority of white people in those states would almost certainly find the offer utterly irresistible.
CraigM
4162
All too true. Because their pols know that Alabama would be completely fucked without that federal gravy train
Give them yellow green orange and red. And go away.
Not yellow! Skiing Craig, get your priorities right!
And really you’re not thinking in Great Power terms. Set the Mormons up as their Great Non-Evangelical enemy in Greater Utah and they can have a fun couple hundred years of hitting each other over religious differences.
No, Texans like to brag about secession, but they don’t actually want to do it.
Tim_N
4165
Keep yellow for environmental reasons, it has yellowstone after all. You might want to keep green too for food security.
Can anyone think of anything orange and red do positively for the world, or anything of value on the land? Do they make anything worthwhile these days?
Matt_W
4166
It also has Yosemite, Zion, Glacier, Grand Canyon, Bryce, Arches, Grand Tetons, Crater Lake, Sequoia, King’s Canyon, Carlsbad Caverns, Badlands, Petrified Forest, etc etc National Parks. A good 60-70% of the most visited national parks are in the yellow section.
milo
4167
Secession doesn’t make any kind of sense in the modern world. When Civil War II breaks out, both sides will be fighting to win control over the entire country (or whatever’s left of it at that point). It will be short, and bloody, and both sides will lose.
Tim_N
4168
I speculate the opposite, a superpower having a Civil War would end in total obliteration for both sides and would never happen due to MAD. Whoever is the government of the day would resist all attempts at secession until it became abundantly clear that the only alternative to secession would be war, and then they’ll let them secede and pretend it’s a good thing. This is assuming the part of the country organised and mobilised around secession could take control of at least a handful of nuclear weapons.
magnet
4169
This is not realistic. A “blue state” like California has wide regions of Republican support in rural areas, and those regions are not going to participate in a California secession effort. Likewise, Edgar County, Iroquois County, Vermilion County, and Clark County - all of which are in deep-blue Illinois - would much sooner secede from Illinois and become part of Indiana (finally free of Chicago!) than join Illinois in rebellion. Malheur County in deep-blue Oregon would sooner become part of Idaho than secede alongside Portland. And so on.
So the only feasible political coalition for secession will come from urban areas in both red states and blue states, (or conversely rural areas in both red states and blue states). Which means the entire goal of secession is futile, since neither urban areas nor rural areas can survive independently.
ShivaX
4170
There are certainly states that could, on paper, survive on their own, but the reality is they wouldn’t.
And then the rest of the US would declare war on them and invade them anyway.
Timex
4171
You can’t secede in the modern world, because virtually all the different states have major military installations at this point.
And, unlike in the 1800’s, folks in the military aren’t generally just stationed where they grew up.
The marines out in Pendelton, for instance, didn’t come from San Diego. They aren’t just gonna say, “Oh, well let’s be part of the independent state of California now, and function as their military!”
Secession would amount to some state trying to become independent, while having no military, and having the US military stationed at bases all over in their state. It wouldn’t work.
Well, you can’t secede through military (with the exception of North and South Sudan, which had a military conflict before they country split), but there are non military avenues.
Scotland didn’t secede, but there was a legitimate vote on the subject. It may still do so in the near future.
Several islands in the Caribbean voted whether they wanted to stay within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, or not (3 did, 3 didn’t). Quebec had a legitimate vote on staying part of Canada.
There were some votes in Spain that were deemed illegitimate, but they still happened.
The avenues to secede have changed, but it’s still an option. Just not a military option.
I don’t think so, not in the US. The effect of the American Civil War — the Constitutional effect — was to establish that states may not voluntarily leave the Union. They can’t. The legislature can’t vote to get out, the people can’t vote to get out. There’s no avenue absent rebellion.
Edit: It isn’t clear to me that Congress even has the power to evict a state.
Timex
4174
Seems like it’s gonna be a lot messier when you’re talking about the seceding nations having a bunch of nuclear weapons.
KevinC
4175
The only thing that I ask of y’all is that if you do secede, please contribute to my GoFundMe so that I can afford to relocate!
KevinC
4176
Is this complete nonsense, or what is she talking about?
I’ll be frank, I don’t trust Tulsi at all. Having a swarm of Russian bots trying to boost her at the launch of her campaign didn’t help.
Its legit -
from the NY Times
Tulsi Now Inc., the campaign committee for Ms. Gabbard, said Google suspended the campaign’s advertising account for six hours on June 27 and June 28, obstructing its ability to raise money and spread her message to potential voters.
After the first Democratic debate Ms. Gabbard was briefly the most searched-for candidate on Google. Her campaign wanted to capitalize on the attention she was receiving by buying ads that would have placed its website at the top of search results for her name.
The lawsuit also said the Gabbard campaign believed its emails were being placed in spam folders on Gmail at “a disproportionately high rate” when compared with emails from other Democratic candidates.
…
Google has automated systems that flag unusual activity on advertiser accounts — including large spending changes — to prevent fraud, said Jose Castaneda, a spokesman for the company.
“In this case, our system triggered a suspension and the account was reinstated shortly thereafter,” he said. “We are proud to offer ad products that help campaigns connect directly with voters, and we do so without bias toward any party or political ideology.”
No other campaigns have publicly claimed that Google has suspended their advertising accounts.
