4761

I was disappointed but not surprised that Jess King didn’t win. I voted and went door to door for her, and we talked to a lot of formed GOP members that just couldn’t vote R this time around.

On the push side, our small town now as Democratic party office in it. So, that’s something

4763

Obviously.

To the extent that something sustainable can be built, yes. To the extent that retraining works, yes (although I think most people close to that scene would agree that that whole process is seriously fraught).

I do care about my neighbors, and I wish things would work for them. But truly, it is just a less dramatic example of the coal miners. History has brought them to a bad place, and unless some unforeseen technological/historical twist is coming, they are the blacksmiths of a little more than a century ago.

But we CAN offer simultaneously offer human sympathy to the overall group, even while condemning specific acts of ugliness/burn the world rage. Understanding that, out of this whole mass of human beings, perhaps a third are consumed with that ugly rage, a third possess not a bit of that ugliness, and a third waver in between.

However, my point here is and always has been political. As a nation we need to move on, which means Democratic policies rather than Republican burn-the-nation ones. And if we broad brush insult all three thirds of this human mass, attack totally irrelevant cultural stuff like their hunting and religion, then we communicate to the not-burn-the-world people that we are their enemy, such that they too vote Republican. And lose a lot of states we didn’t have to lose.

4764

People like us, on political forums, vastly overestimate the impact of these issues on voters in general. I’ve lived in this rural community since the mid 70s, participated in and overheard myriad conversations touching on politics over that time, and I have never heard a single person say “I hate affordable childcare” or “Rich people are taxed too much” or anything about George Soros. Most of what you are referring to comes from a whole different crowd, the politicos and activists of the Republican Party, and the think tanks they have funded over the decades.

As to issues: Guns do matter. A fair number of lawn signs around the county about the Second Amendment. Religious issues matter, but clearly less. But these are legitimate issues, they are pursuing their interests just as we are pursuing ours.

The main Republican advantage around here is much more mundane. When it comes to the everyday stuff of politics, things like which counties get how much money for infrastructure and schools, Republicans favor more money for rural counties, while Dems favor more money for metropolitan.

So really, it is a very serious misunderstanding to look at the county vote as being a referendum on Dump or climate change or race or corporate taxes.

However, even with our being honest and forthright on these real issues, we can roll the clock back to where we lose these red counties by 20 rather than 30+ points (and thus win the state)… if we can just quit with the broad brush attacks.

It was a particular group of right wing operatives who put out that thing about pedophile rings from pizza parlors… not rural America, not my neighbors. Any implication that they are somehow responsible is offensive and counter productive, it sends a message that we are the enemy, attacking them wildly for all the ugliness of the world.

There are hate groups out there spewing garbage about gays. But gays are getting married here, transgender students attend our schools, and there is little to no public objection. So attacking the people of my county for the evil of the hate groups… again, this is not only wildly insensitive, it is politically the epitome of counter productive.

Ditto most of the other issues you have listed. And come election time, this harms us and helps the likes of Dump.

4765

Your description of the rural voter doesn’t match my own experiences (talking in generalities, of course). Given you mention “winning the state”, perhaps it’s the difference between red state rural vs. blue or purple rural?

4766

If hurt feelings is all it takes to get someone to support a Trump, is that person actually “good and decent”?

4767

Can you help me understand what you’re asking for? Two days later, I still don’t understand.

Are you saying that Dem candidates shouldn’t deliberately antagonize rural people? That seems good advice, I guess, but what specifically do you mean? Do you mean they shouldn’t make speeches calling those people Nazis? Or do you mean they shouldn’t e.g. campaign for stricter gun laws?

Or are you not talking about Dem candidates, but rather about Dem voters? That they shouldn’t…what, exactly?

I find it confusing because 1) I don’t think any actual Dem candidates are making broad brush attacks, and 2) to the extent that some Dem voters might be, do you think it is any more common than the rhetoric of some of their counterparts on the right in your community?

4768

Another candidate out.

Basically everyone who can’t make the September debates seems to see the handwriting…

Good.

4769

Don’t you think this is because rural counties elect Republicans and urban counties elect Democrats and then the politicians pursue the interests of their constituencies? I’d be willing to bet Democrats from rural counties vote in their counties’ interests too. Republicans in general tend to vote to reduce state budgets for things like infrastructure and schools. I get that no one really thinks about these things when voting. Hillary’s campaign had a policy proposal for rural communities, something I guarantee you the Trump campaign did not. She also had one for manufacturing that sounds an awful lot like the pablum that Trump spouted, but with thought behind it. It’s really hard to reach those communities with the message that our politicians do care about their issues.

4770

I’ll be honest, I didn’t even know there was a Seth Moulton running.

4771

You and me both.

4772

+1 would like again

4773

I like your posts, FF, and I agree with your overall points here. But I think you’re stretching things a bit.

I don’t thing this is really true. Democrats generally favor things that SHOULD make a material difference in rural areas, like SNAP, full-time Kindergarten, parental leave, and more money for education. There is a perceived flow of money away from rural areas simply because more money is spent in areas with more people, but the reality is that rural areas get more money during Democratic governance. So it is not a rational decision about money.

Again, we have the grievance thing – “I don’t want a bunch of city-dwellers getting my money! Even if it means me getting less money from city-dwellers!”

And this part is flat-out incorrect. Gay people might be getting married in your area, and transgender students may be able to attend your schools, but that is despite rural voters who are still overwhelmingly against such things.

While a significant majority of US persons (>60%, as of 2017) now favor of gay marriage now, rural voters are still against it (only 47% support, 2017). Same with allowing transgender kids to… basically exist.

4774

I personally think the best tack for a Democratic candidate would be to just speak “straight” with rural voters, since that about all they’ll respect or respond to coming from that perspective. You’re not going to win them over but you might defuse a little enthusiasm for the Republican candidate.

4775

I think the key Democratic message has to be that America is a great country, rural America is a key part of this greatness, and no one has to fear ethnic diversity.

4776

This AI completion thing works for everything.

I think the key Democratic message has to be that America is a great country, rural America is a key part of this greatness, and no one has to fear ethnic diversity.

“It’s that simple. It’s going to lead the country if we take on the forces that will create ethnic diversity, that would change America.”

The remarks, which came in an MSNBC town hall meeting held at the University of New Hampshire, were met with applause as some audience members expressed concern that the president’s proposal could end up being used for discriminatory purposes, rather than a simple solution to the nation’s immigration system. Some attendees claimed Obama’s message was “anti-American.”

But in an interview with CNN on Sunday night, Obama pointed to a similar incident last year—and the rise of hate. Last November, as a result of a “brief, ugly incident” in which one of the country’s first Somali immigrants—a husband and wife—claimed they were victims of racial profiling, the president said he was “not interested in demonizing folks who are already deeply worried about what America looked like under this administration.”

4777

Yep. That was my point. I’m not arguing in favor of painting entire regions of the country with a broad brush. I’m just saying it will happen, because people, unfortunately, are people, regional bickering has been part of the USA since the beginning, and harping on regional differences does in fact have political rewards for non-national politicians.

If you’re a rural person looking for an urban person saying things that will offend you, you’re always, unfortunately, going to find one. That’s not necessarily because urban folks are worse, on average, than rural ones; it’s just a mathematical consequence of there being way, waaaaay more urban people than rural. You’re not going to get every one of them to shut up.

So what do you do? Accept the numbers you cannot change and pick your battles. Make coalitions with the urban folk who understand you, try to educate the ones who don’t, negotiate with everyone … and be prepared to be painted with a broad brush by the ones you can’t reach, because again the numbers are against you.

Is having to put up with being painted with a broad brush by the majority fair? No. Welcome to being a minority.

4778

Foreign press meddling in our elections

4779

Joe Biden seems to inspire a lot of people outside of left-ish young progressive Democratic silos.

And the thing is, much like with Donald Trump’s supporters 3 years ago, when Grampy Joe’s supporters read something like that, you know what they don’t do? Reconsider their choice. You know what they do actually do? Dig in on their choice.

4780

So here’s the trick. There is no technology that will help coal miners, technology is why they are in the boat they are in. Coal production increased every year for decades after employment peaked in the 60’s. Peak coal production output? Happened in Obama’s term.

Clinton knew this and actually recognized this with the only proposal that had a chance. Job training and investing in new industries like tech for those communities. But they didn’t want to hear that. They wanted someone to say ‘we’ll bring coal jobs back’ despite this being literally impossible. Nothing will ever bring coal jobs back. They never left from a decline in coal, they left from changing tech and mining locations (the idaho basin is much more productive per man hour, causing huge increases there at the expense of Appalachia which just can’t compete).

4781

All of that kind of makes me want the Democratic candidate to tell them, “We will bring coal jobs back!” Just say it. It seems to work. Everyone else will know that it’s not real.