Coal mining and burning should both be banned over a 5-year period with workers guaranteed pensions and offered retraining.

Well you say that, but you are trying to compare criticism of rural values and cultures with racism… and those two are not comparable. To compare the way black people who were forced into the city, often by actual laws, segregation, and the refusal to allow freedom of movement that was so bad we created more laws specifically to address it to being “rather touchy” is incredibly outrageous.

The impetus for my original post was a Dem voter, responding to an obnoxious distortion of representation in government with an egregious shot at all rural midwesterners. My main point is that we would do a lot better in elections if we could avoid the temptation to do that. Because it does the Republicans’ work for them, turning 15 and 20 point losses in the rural counties into 30+ point losses, which in a lot of states cannot be overcome win metropolitan areas.

I am not suggesting that we hide our actual policy proposals, in the slightest.

But it is a subtle distortion to say that I am just saying don’t call those people Nazis. Because the issue is not the harshness. I call our president the Dump, obviously I do not disagree with myself. I would similarly call many of the GOP public figures every name in the book, including some that some other people here think of as relatively reasonable. I am also good with harsh words aimed at the confederate flag fliers and the specific people who chant about sending our congresswomen “back.”

It’s all a question of who you are including in the “those people.”

@Tin_Wisdom cites statistics saying that only 47% of rural people support gay marriage. Even if that statistic is exactly correct, think about what that means. In the space of a couple decades, almost half of “those people” have come around to a more reasonable, more liberal way of thinking. But when a liberal speaker calls out all “those people” the speaker is insulting these potential allies, and the message received probably sounds something like “Hey, we see you and disgusting, vile people as indistinguishable. We see you as the enemy.” And human nature being what it is, a lot of people having to choose between a party that unfairly considers immigrants and minorities the enemy, and a party that considers you the enemy… they end up voting for people like the Dump.

To me, this is all just common sense.

Professional politicians have made errors here, Obama’s choice of that verb “cling” was highly unfortunate, despite the context. However, in our era where partisans post in very public ways and don’t just swap opinions privately in a bar, I’m leaning on fellow liberals to think about their own messaging.

I hope I have at least been more clear as to my meaning, rather than muddier. :)

But I would add one more thing. According to the US Census Bureau’s statistics, there are surprisingly few rural Americans today. But if you ask people to self identify, that number shoots way up. This discrepancy has political implications.

If you or a politician is in favor of policy where the details are not going to work out very well for rural America, truth is that the political price for that is relatively low. Because only truly rural people will feel the pain. But if you or a politician talk as though all rural people are in with the “Send her back”/Hate on gays/Racist crowd, a whole lot more voters are going to feel attacked, and the political price is a lot higher.

Thanks for the response. This gets at the core of my question:

Who is ‘we’ here? The implicit claim is that someone insulted rural voters and as a result caused a bad electoral result, presumably the election of Trump.

But is that claim true? I have no idea. I don’t doubt that Trump won because he got stronger support from rural people, but I do doubt the claim that they supported him because of some insulting thing some (unidentified) liberals said about them. Nothing is entirely certain, but most mainstream analyses of the causes of the outcome show that 1) racist anti-immigrant feelings and 2) a false narrative about Clinton as a criminal are what drove that result.

So what are you alluding to? Is it the ‘basket of deplorables’ or something else? Is there an exit poll analysis that says resentment of liberal insults and taunts was decisive?

This is the best snapshot of white privilege that I’ve read in a while. That’s kind of the root of the whole thing right now though, isn’t it?

Pretty much agree with this; we’ve seen voters consistently vote against their self-interests, so it’s not policy differences no matter what lip service we hear. Instead, it’s identity politics and their associated litmus tests. That’s not to say they’re all bigots or anything, but rather being able to connect/identify with a politician is far more persuasive than many assume.

Two of the last three Democratic presidents grew up in red states. Are you so sure that they were secretly patronizing the people they grew up with?

What if they Clinton actually liked grilled meat and blue jeans? What if Carter actually looked forward to prayer breakfasts? What if Al Gore tries really hard not to roll his eyes when his supporters offer him a vegan sandwich full of arugula?

Pretty much, yes.

I don’t think Clinton, Carter, etc were secretly patronizing them. I do think that they pretended to put up with their general disdain for “elite” culture. It’s not that Al Gore preferred hamburger to arugula (a green that has been cultivated for thousands of years and is mentioned in the bible), it’s that he wouldn’t use arugula or Dijon mustard as code for disdain of liberal elites. The last all Democratic presidents have been actually really real Christians, so I don’t at all think their religious language was pandering. What I was pointing out is that our candidates not only share their cultural values, but also even give lip service to the idea that their cultural ideas represent some kind of norm of American life. And it doesn’t really work.

Let’s talk some numbers here.

The USDA breaks American counties down into nine rough categories. The first three they categorize as “Metro”, and the other six fall into various categories of “non-metro” depending on their distance from a city-center and their population. In the 2016 election, the distance from a city center was a good predictor of the percentage that they would go for Trump:

OK, here’s where the numbers come in. The US has a population of roughly 330 million. The graph above looks awash in red, but that’s because it’s not scaled for population – the top three categories represent ~284 million, while the bottom six categories represent ~46 million.

So 46 million (or just 14% of the population) doesn’t sound like that much. Concentrate on the cities where the votes are, right?

But you could say the same thing about African Americans (~40 million) or Hispanics (~50 million) or Jews (~7 million) and I don’t think anyone would seriously consider ignoring any of those groups.

Well, Trump would, obviously. But I don’t think he’s a good role-model.

Moreover, as @FinnegansFather keeps trying to point out, “rural voters” are FAR less monolithic than ethnic or religious groups. Republicans can’t count on more than 5% of the African American vote, but Democrats absolutely CAN get 45% or even 50% of the non-Metro voters, meaning upwards of 25 million votes. Why wouldn’t they try for that?

Call a Nazi a Nazi and shame the guy in Iowa flying a Confederate flag. But don’t needlessly demonize a voter simply because they own a tractor.

Trump won a presidential election. There’s something to be said for a strategy that concentrates effort on turning out your base of voters.

I think that African Americans and evangelical Christians are the only groups that exhibit the monolithic-ness that you’re talking about. Catholics split just about exactly like the population at large does. Trump got 28% of Hispanic voters. Why wouldn’t Republicans try to get more of the Hispanic vote?

No one of consequence does this. We do get a bit grumbly that rural concerns take such a disproportionate slice of the national conversation and that there’s considerable political effort expended to address them. But no one specifically demonizes rural voters.

  1. who is doing that?
  2. what reach does that person have?
  3. what evidence supports that it will decide the election?

I think everyone knows tractors are neat so we’re good, guys.

Hell, I’ve spent an obscene amount of hours driving tractors back and forth and back again in Farming Simulator.

No, no, I immediately consider tractor ownership as a deep character flaw, like wearing MAGA hats, or wiping standing up.

I no longer support Armando’s reign!

TO THE STOCKADES WITH THIS SQUAT-WIPING TRACTOR ENTHUSIAST

Farming requires mad skillz.

The anti semitism at the end of that video was sudden and unexpected

See also: debate somewhere on these forums about the insidious infiltration of altright shitbaggery into basically every aspect of online life but especially areas/memes/sites frequented by stupid, impressionable children.

edit: I am not calling Youtube-watching and/or reddit-surfin’ kids especially stupid. All children are stupid and impressionable.