It's time to have a 2020 Presidential Election thread

CraigM · 2019-09-22T04:25:23.671Z

Warren/ Buttigieg because the extra Fuck You for Pence having to debate a gay man who is clearly smarter than him would be delicious.

Oghier · 2019-09-22T04:33:48.573Z

CraigM:

Warren/ Buttigieg because the extra Fuck You for Pence having to debate a gay man who is clearly smarter than him would be delicious.

If that were on Pay Per View, I’d buy it.

Papageno · 2019-09-22T05:44:42.484Z

Warren, a “fake progressive,” really? What the hell is the thinking there. Do they understand that the CFPB is basically her brainchild?
Some people, I swear to God…

triggercut · 2019-09-22T06:07:44.706Z

inactive_user:

I don’t understand any of the qualms about her aside from age.

And even there, when I see Warren onstage in debates, on the stump, etc. she seems far younger than her age. I mean, Bernie seems younger and more sharp that Grampy Joe, and Warren seems much younger than both of those fellows.

Gordon_Cameron · 2019-09-22T06:33:18.023Z

Warren/Pete would be a worthy ticket. I mean, Trump could still Pocahontas it into oblivion, but if that happens then We The People deserve what’s coming to us.

Tim_N · 2019-09-22T07:29:15.004Z

Papageno:

Warren, a “fake progressive,” really?

As someone who follows the jacobin Facebook page, I don’t think this is the argument. It’s that she is not left enough, or at least on a range of left issues she doesn’t have the consistency and cred that Bernie has.

I don’t see anything wrong with this perspective, they want Bernie because he aligns most with their viewpoint. Most will vote for whoever the dems put up like those here would.

Alstein · 2019-09-22T10:40:08.336Z

At some point the Bernie fans have to realize a vote for Bernie is effectively going to be a vote for Biden. Bernie can’t win, but Biden can.

triggercut · 2019-09-22T15:37:16.937Z

Tim_N:

As someone who follows the jacobin Facebook page, I don’t think this is the argument. It’s that she is not left enough, or at least on a range of left issues she doesn’t have the consistency and cred that Bernie has.

LOL.

“I don’t think that they’re saying 2+2 = 4, I think they’re saying that it equals exactly one more than 3.”

They saying exactly that, about her being a fake progressive. They take her to task for playing ball with the Democratic party establishment.

Whenever Warren’s campaign tweets, there’s a lot of “You go girl” from Warren fans, but also a lot of “fake progressive” stuff as well in the replies. (Yeah, I know, never read the comments.)

SlyFrog · 2019-09-22T16:38:10.163Z

triggercut:

Tim_N:

As someone who follows the jacobin Facebook page, I don’t think this is the argument. It’s that she is not left enough, or at least on a range of left issues she doesn’t have the consistency and cred that Bernie has.

LOL.

“I don’t think that they’re saying 2+2 = 4, I think they’re saying that it equals exactly one more than 3.”

They saying exactly that, about her being a fake progressive. They take her to task for playing ball with the Democratic party establishment.

Whenever Warren’s campaign tweets, there’s a lot of “You go girl” from Warren fans, but also a lot of “fake progressive” stuff as well in the replies. (Yeah, I know, never read the comments.)

Gatekeeping. It’s not just for neckbeard gamers, it’s for liberals too.

magnet · 2019-09-22T16:45:02.668Z

Alstein:

At some point the Bernie fans have to realize a vote for Bernie is effectively going to be a vote for Biden. Bernie can’t win, but Biden can.

Same could have been said about Warren last month. Things can change.

Sharpe · 2019-09-22T18:34:50.908Z

I’m thinking the Dem’s inability or unwillingness to counter Trump hard on abuses of power, combined with the media’s seemingly infinite both-sides-ism, also combined with the addictive drip drip drip of continuing Trump rants, GOP leaks, and investigative reporting means that Joe Biden is going to be inevitably destroyed as a candidate over the next few months by “what about his son’s business?” type BS.

Given the jaded state of the Dem electorate, this kind of thing may well cut the legs off of Biden’s electability argument.

It’s an F’ed up situation but I guess if that ends up being the silver lining, I’ll take it.

abidingdude · 2019-09-22T19:21:47.064Z

Let’s call this progress!

twitter.com

Mitt Romney (MittRomney)

If the President asked or pressured Ukraine’s president to investigate his political rival, either directly or through his personal attorney, it would be troubling in the extreme. Critical for the facts to come out.

6:34 PM - 22 Sep 2019 5.5K 1.3K

ShivaX · 2019-09-22T19:53:25.867Z

Extreme Troubling. Followed by Ultimate Brow Furrowing.

Gordon_Cameron · 2019-09-22T20:09:34.260Z

Christ that man is useless.

Tim_N · 2019-09-22T20:51:18.480Z

triggercut:

also a lot of “fake progressive” stuff as well in the replies.

I thought we were talking about Jacobin and their core group of readers? Not any idiot writing comments on Twitter?

playingwithknives · 2019-09-22T21:24:42.066Z

The further left along the scale you go, the more likely the person believes the person to their immediate right is a neoliberal, conservative and fascist.

triggercut · 2019-09-22T22:10:39.228Z

Tim_N:

I thought we were talking about Jacobin and their core group of readers? Not any idiot writing comments on Twitter?

LOL.

You’ll have to set down those goalposts you’re moving for a moment to point out where I said “Jacobin and their core group of readers”. And then I’m going to need a cite showing that the “any idiot writing comments on twitter” (your words, not mine; I wouldn’t wave those voices’ concerns out of hand so dismissively) doesn’t possibly cross a venn with that core group of readers.

Tim_N · 2019-09-22T23:20:04.762Z

triggercut:

to point out where I said “Jacobin and their core group of readers”.

You wrote…

triggercut:

some Jacobin Democrats who are vehemently anti-Warren.

And I was replying to…

Papageno:

Warren, a “fake progressive,” really? What the hell is the thinking there.

I’ve not seen an article on Jacobin that is in any way like this. The perspective is literally “Bernie good, Warren less good”. They don’t claim she is even a centrist, let alone a fraud. They write stuff criticizing Warren because she is the closest competition to Bernies base and they want Bennie to win. So I don’t know what “some Jacobin Democrats” means or where this comes from.

If you just mean random Twitter commenters then you can ascribe any view to groups like these. Some biden democrats are rampant racists. Some Warren democrats are pedophiles. All are as true as each other and just as meaningless.

By the way, why do you have to be such an asshole when disagreeing with people you don’t know on the internet? Writing “LOL” when replying to someone’s post multiple times is extremely patronising.

Timex · 2019-09-23T00:32:11.599Z

Tim_N:

The perspective is literally “Bernie good, Warren less good”.

What coherent reason do they have for this?

Tim_N · 2019-09-23T01:16:12.538Z

Timex:

What coherent reason do they have for this?

Is it controversial to say that Bernie Sanders is more left-wing than Warren on economic issues (honestly not sure)? Here’s an example article:

jacobinmag.com

Warren Is No Hillary. She’s Also No Bernie.

The feud between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporters is getting ridiculous. Warren isn’t Hillary and Bernie is no sexist.

It also drives home the point that noone in Jacobin is saying Warren is a fake progressive. To a ‘Jacobin Democrat’ (whatever that means) Warren is the clear second choice after Sanders. Keep in mind these are people who self-identify as socialists.