You see, this is not true. I guess it’s a problem of my lack of clarity, but asking you what historical conservative views on race were is not a way of saying that all conservatives are racists.
Matt_W
5953
Hey, this week we learned that conservative Donald Trump most definitely tried to withhold aid to a foreign country in exchange for dirt on his political opponent. We also, just today, had many conservative members of Congress completely flout security protocols to stage a mob action inside a secure area of the Capital building.
See my comment upthread about cherry picking.
ShivaX
5955
You found Buckley, one dude, and then basically said “that’s all of conservatism and all conservatives”.
So if one conservative was racist, they’re all racist. That’s what you strongly implied.
He’s an agent of the State. Conservatives never trusted cops, that’s why they needed guns. Ruby Ridge, etc, etc. It’s only recently that the NRA and police union donations made “conservatives” love cops.
Maybe not classically liberal, but it’s a very popular move from progressives.
They’re not conservatives though. That’s the point.
magnet
5956
Here is the rest of the quote from 1965. I don’t think he is blaming blacks for their own plight.
The ill-feeling that exists between the races is due in part to a legacy of discrimination and injustice committed by the dominant ethnic groups.
How is it not relevant? Liberal leaders of that same era, like JFK, used to support military interventions all over the globe with little thought to the local consequences.
Does that mean that if you support an attack on Iran, you are voicing the liberal position on the matter? Of course not. Positions change over time.
Matt_W
5957
It’s not really cherry picking. Conservativism has no actual adherents, so it can remain pure in the hallowed halls of ideology, unsullied by what actual humans might do or say and completely insulated from any scrutiny contact with the real world might admit. Liberals, on the other hand, are anyone at all of negligible notability who say anything dumb.
That is exactly 100% my point. No one is a conservative.
Not New Deal liberal either. “Classically liberal” refers to the mindset of 18th century intellectuals more than modern-day progressives. I daresay both American conservatism and liberalism are, or ought to be, subsets of “classical liberalism.”
I asked you for the historical view and you offered up pablum. Then I gave you a counter-example, and my counter-example was an editorial from the publication that literally defined post-war American conservatism.
Name the real conservatives in public life now. Also in 2009, and in 1999, and in 1989.
ShivaX
5960
I’m not going to look up ever court case in history. I had two in the last 4 days and picked them.
That’s not cherry picking.
I’m sorry you can be bothered, but I’m not Google.
Tell you what I’ll PM you about it every single time I see a story in that vein for the next year, if I remember.
Because you can’t say that conservatism is a thoughtful philosophy, a serious creed based on fundamentals of liberty like white folks can oppress black folks because white folks are more advanced, and then shift the next day to oh, never mind, sorry about that, but it’s still a thoughtful philosophy and serious creed based on fundamentals of liberty. It’s absurd. The first position pretty much debunks the intellectual seriousness of the school.
ShivaX
5962
https://twitter.com/radleybalko
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom
https://twitter.com/Popehat
https://twitter.com/ScottGreenfield
https://twitter.com/EvanMcMullin
https://twitter.com/th3j35t3r
https://twitter.com/MaxBoot
https://twitter.com/NonWhiteHat
https://twitter.com/sarahemclaugh
https://twitter.com/ASFleischman
https://twitter.com/adamsteinbaugh
Just off the top of my head.
But sure, they aren’t real.
ShivaX
5963
See above.
Fuck you, I’m not doing homework. You find some and we can debate if they’re conservatives.
When did the Republican Party stop being a conservative party? Or was it never one?
ShivaX
5965
In my opinion? Around 1996ish, though it didn’t really hit until 9/11, 2001.
Ideals rarely match reality, though. Iran-Contra wasn’t very conservative, though I think most of Bush Sr’s admin probably qualifies, but I think overall it was mostly conservative up until Newt took the party down the road to fascism by becoming Goebbels for the GOP, though it took time for his damage to completely filter through the party.
magnet
5966
Reagan, Thatcher, Krauthammer…
Nesrie
5967
I’d say at least as far back as Reagan since the so-called conservative group had no problem sacrificing minority groups to get their tax breaks which basically makes them racists and the founding father’s of today’s GOP.
Buckley in 1965 is certainly not shining star for affirmative action, so I am not sure why there is so much emphasis on him. I mean… that’s even the same year of the famous debate, and he was no friend there.
He was a racist and led to today. If that is an example of a conservative, then there is indeed no difference.
Matt_W
5968
Ah, a collection mostly of first amendment warriors who mostly vote Democrat. (At least of the ones I know.) Believe it or not, most Democrats are also ardent supporters of the first amendment:
So, is it just a matter of emphasis? Conservatives are basically Democrats who focus more on civil liberties and first amendment issues?
KWhit
5969
I’m 47 and Republicans have for my entire life taken any opportunity to restrict the rights of women and minorities. I’m not sure how “their fists were meeting the conservatives’ faces” that whole time.
ShivaX
5970
It doesn’t matter who I say or what I say because you’ll just shift the goalposts and claim a “win”, so I choose to no longer play this game.
Also equating Republicans in 2017 with Conservatives is kind of laughable.
There is a reason nearly every person on that list doesn’t consider themselves a Republican and is saying the party must be burned to the ground and destroyed utterly.
It is a weird list. The better known ones were Republicans until Trump, and some of them by their own description aren’t conservatives.
