I think it’s probably a good idea to hold onto your criticisms until the guy is in the ground. That’s really all anyone is saying.
*shrug*
And some of us regard that as a silly and pointless limitation, esp. with all said “breathless adoration” ongoing.
edit: For what it’s worth, McCain probably doesn’t quite rise (sink?) to the level of grave-shitting in my book, so perhaps the dancing is really my particular way of respecting him!
When a public figure dies, discussions of his legacy are fair game IMO. I don’t think there’s any need to be rude or vulgar, but there’s nothing wrong with pointing out facts. Perhaps the effusive praise for McCain this past few days has grown a little galling to some of us; that may be the case.
Incidentally, if McConnell died, wouldn’t he go “shell down”?
It’s 2018 - I’m in favor of an unceasing critique of the Republican Party, it’s leadership, and its supporters.
I get it. I know why people see it as a limitation, but I think you also have to take into account how others view it. While you may not have a God fearing bone in your body, many (most?) people do, which is why it is usually in their lexicon that you “honor the dead”, at least for awhile. When you don’t, it becomes clear to them that “there’s something wrong with you” and while you might not mind that label, it also leads to other opinions or even factual statements you have being circumspect for them, fairly or unfairly.
For all of us to get along at some indeterminate future time, barring weariness after actual war breaks out somehow, we need to start to recognize that we all have different perspectives on things and maybe this one thing you take a moment to just step back and let it happen for, like I said above… until he’s in the ground, may help bridge some gaps before things get out of hand.
I hate what many of these Republicans do to the point I hate many of them when I see their faces. Their goals and their results are upsetting to me. That said, I’ll take a man like McCain who was flawed like all of us but brave in the face of peril defending his country, and let him rest in peace for a bit before I condemn all that I dislike about the time he spent in congress. It’s not too much to ask of people to take a step back for a week IMO.
McCain was a loyal Republican foot soldier. I can think of no more damning observation you can make about the man.
-Tom
Thank you. It was bothering me too. And no praise for turtle. Living or dead, fuck him.
The modern US politics is not one of decorum, if it was, the 2016 election would not have gone the way it did. I think it’s fascinating that we will not have these effusive eulogies for the civilians of Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and so many places he either bombed himself, or supported the bombing thereof.
The Republican party will never give its opponents a break, and that’s fine- actual division is important, our politicians should not be shaking hands across the aisle, they should be loathing one another. At least then you know they actually believe in something.
Right up until McConnell really needed him. Then he flipped his thumb down and blew up Mitch’s dream.
Yeah fuck McConnell. Nothing he has ever done has been good that I’m aware of. If he doesn’t cure cancer and give away the secret for free before he dies, it’s very unlikely anything he could ever do will make up for what he’s done. I’m fairly certain that man will burn in Hell for what he’s done and continues to do.
If you looked around, right here, on this forum and not that very far back, you will clearly see I am not breathless and was actually pretty critical of McCain. It’s just human decency we’re talking about.
If McConnel died today, or Trump or anyone else I hate, I wouldn’t do it. I just think there is a time and place, and yes, I know that feels like a tall ask now, maybe even an unfair one, especially from a side that often demands consideration but gives none in return.
There will be plenty of time to correct any media spin or any misguided attempts to mark McCain a saint. The man died. His family is mourning, and I suspect he had a not great death too. It just seems kind to be more graceful than what is being perceived. I am not saying anyone is wrong or that debate is wrong it’s just…let the body cool first.
So the solution to the bad guys being bad is to be bad also?
Good luck with that.
If you consider criticizing a dead politician to be a moral fault, then you’re probably in the minority in this country.
IMO, vicious rhetoric is not anywhere near the same as deciding to kill people.
Sorry are you being ironic and talking about the current political climate here…or are you saying you are a proponent of this sentiment?
See I will be respectful, if critical, of McCain. He does get a respectful deference, which I do not think an honest rememberance exceeds.
McConnel and Trump however? Fuck that, I’d be popping champagne.
Perhaps literally.
They deserve no such decorum, and they will get no quarter from me.
I am a proponent of this. If you’re a politician, I would hope you take issues and ideals seriously enough that you don’t give people who work against them an inch in any way. It’s called actually being honest. How seriously can I take someone who claims to, for example, oppose Republicans when they sit down and eat at the same table, take the same corporate money, and laugh together.
If I were a politician, I would not feel like I had accomplished much if my opponents weren’t dancing on my grave when I died.
See it’s not about them… it’s about you and me. I don’t really know how to explain beyond what I have. So I will just leave at that.
Yes, this is why the centrist and media calls for bipartisan compromise leave me cold. As if we should agree to exclude half of preexisting conditions, or give slightly smaller tax cuts to billionaires in return for slightly smaller cuts in Medicare.
No I understand your position, you have expressed it well. And it is generally decent advice.
However in the specific cases mentioned, I wholly reject the premise. Now that is presupposing they died while still in office, when they were able to actuate real harm to people until that time.
We’re they to be removed from power, and at some distance from that to pass, it’d be different. But if they shuffled the mortal coil tomorrow, I would celebrate.
You may disagree with that sentiment, and that’s fine. But I will be honest about it, and why.
I am, however, talking from the perspective of someone who has no real platform. No national action. I am not rubbing it in the faces of their families. Which is an important difference.
This stance invalidates our countries intended method of operation, the very idea our founding fathers had for us was to work from a common set of facts, but different priorities and come up with a middle ground that neither side loved. This is the intended design of this countries system of government.
Abraham Lincoln gave a speech about a house divided cannot stand, many of the founding fathers talked about this, heck its even in the bible!
If we cannot agree to this basic tenant, then our existing form of government is destined to fail. We might as well throw out our existing framework and start over!
Obstructionism as leadership principal just doesn’t work, period.