Justice League - DC and Warner Bros' superpowered team-up movie


Each of these movies is more of a disaster than the last… the narrative and editing gets more confusing, the tone uneven, and they get darker and darker, visually. God I hate this series. This is the nightmare scenario as far as I’m concerned. Some of my favorite culture icons in terrible movies that make money anyway so there are no lessons learned or course corrections at all. It’s tragic. But if people go see them anyway, it will never change.

RIP the Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman that I love. Long live Bruce Timm’s vision of DC comics.


That character is named Hank Henshaw and a version of him appears in the ongoing Supergirl series.


But sheesh, that will only confuse you if you try to reconcile that interpretation with the comics version.


Because readers like to identify with the characters in a story, and back when those characters were created comic book readers were actually under 50.

(Loved Kid Flash when I was younger.)




DC writing more checks their movies can’t cash (yet). I just rambled on twitter for a while about this, but I don’t believe in any movie announcements past Justice League until we see what kind of commercial and critical success it has.

The Batman movie is back to square one with a new director and will be rewritten. The Flash movie can’t find a director. I think Aquaman may technically be in production, but I don’t think there’s anything so important about that movie that they wouldn’t step in and hack it to pieces if the reaction to the character in Justice League suggests it should be funnier/less funny/wetter/dryer/edited into oblivion a la Suicide Squad.

If Wonder Woman is excellent (a big, but not impossible “if”), I can imagine that being enough to keep the “universe” alive no matter how JL does, but even with an excellent WW, if Justice League under-performs, I say nothing in the announced lineup is safe from being cancelled or significantly altered. Especially if Justice League under-performs financially, but even if it does decently at the box office, I think if the reviews are bad enough, it could still jeopardize other plans as things are reshuffled (again) in response.

If JL is a total bomb, that might be the breaking point where Affleck bails out. It would be crazy, but you could even imagine a scenario where that helps Batgirl if they’re looking for something to step in and redeem the bat-family. But I stand by nothing being certain about any of these scenarios until we see if Justice League can finally pull off a win for DC/Warner.


The thing is, I think all of recent DC/WB movies have been box office wins. They’d obviously like them to get good critical review and more $win, but they aren’t going to stop making these until they get several box office losers in a row. That hasn’t happened, at all.


This is 100% true, but there is a caveat. The way studios measure the success of their movies has more to it than just straight profit. It’s not unheard of for studios to consider a movie a “failure” even while it makes a bunch of profit because it didn’t hit the targets set by the internal estimates. For example, the Andrew Garfield Amazing Spider-Man movies technically made a profit every time (as did Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man 3) but they missed the projected numbers resulting in reboots/revamps. Essentially, the studio’s disappointment gave the beancounters just enough of an excuse to not renew contracts when they came up for renegotiation.

We don’t know what the internal target was for BvS, but I feel certain it was higher than what DC/Warner got. They didn’t even break a billion, which Marvel has no problem doing. Heck, Iron Man 3 made $1.2 billion on its own, and most people agree it wasn’t the best the MCU had to offer. Meanwhile, the DCU can’t get their movie with two of the most recognizable superheroes on Earth battling each other to pass a figure the Fast and Furious movies were hitting a few installments ago.


I think your own example (Spiderman) proves the point: they aren’t going to stop making them unless they get several money losers in a row. Will they reboot? Will they switch directors if things go south? Possibly. But the odds that they’re not going to continue forward with the plans of a Whedon-helmed Batgirl flick (if they wrap up negotiations) just because JL turns out to be a stinker that makes money is almost nil.

There’s just still too much money to be made in this genre to cede it all to Marvel/Disney.


I think they’re aware of their critical failures, and will react in some way regardless of their “profitable but not as profitable as we hoped” box office. Financial success is why we’ve gotten as far as we have, but I think there will be a breaking point where they won’t be able to continue as planned if the movies aren’t better received.

I could be totally wrong, or I could be on the right track but wrong about when we hit that point, but I am not convinced WB will keep this up much longer. Certainly not long enough to crank out JL2, The Batman, Man of Steel 2, Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, Shazam, Gotham City Sirens, and now Batgirl.

Otherwise how do you explain the trouble finding someone to work on The Flash, Affleck scaling back involvement in The Batman, the slight production shakeup last year, etc.?

Not hitting their targets and bad reviews will have consequences—all of which have been behind the scenes so far, but eventually that will add up to some of these movies not happening if Warner can’t get a few unqualified winners out soon.

And @Telefrog said this all better while I was editing my draft of this post.


I don’t think any of us are saying WB will get out of the superhero game. Just that these currently announced movies could be in jeopardy. And yeah, I like the odds of a Whedon-helmed Batgirl a lot more than I like the chance of anyone ever getting a Cyborg solo movie off the ground, but there are still no guarantees here. There could be indirect consequences—some other failure, reshuffling, or casting snafu could just screw up the schedule and Whedon might have a timing conflict, it could all be as boring as that.


Keep in mind that Warner/DC already tanked on a Joss Whedon-penned Wonder Woman in 2007 before he went to Marvel. Their “visions” for the character didn’t match apparently.

Which makes me wonder (no pun intended) what they’re offering Whedon now to make him consider Batgirl.


“Do whatever the hell you like, please god, we need an Avengers-like win?”


“Well, he wanted to kill Barbara in the first act…” explains an exasperated Geoff Johns in the wake of the announcement that Whedon and Warner have parted ways.

I kid, but…


See, I’ve followed Whedon’s work long enough to know that Barbara’s safe. Her father, friends, people she might be interested in, pets, or any other character the audience might care about? Not so much…

Still, they wouldn’t let him kill Batman, so I guess he’s safe too. Could turn evil for a bit, but I guess Whedon wouldn’t go there.


Affleck gives a dejected sigh.


Good God, I can’t believe it’s taken me until tonight to appreciate the irony that I’ve always assumed it to be Darkseed. My last name is Seifer, properly pronounced Cypher but mispronounced Seefer by most people. Sorry Darkseid. Solidarity man.




I finally saw the latest trailer to this, it looks really cool. BvS almost put me to sleep, but this might bring me to the theater this time.


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