Kickstarting and Screaming

Nesrie · 2013-03-29T22:18:22.000Z

Who said anything about 20k a year. I can see why some of these groups turn to KS. Angel Investors, certainly banks, would laugh in their face if they came to the table and explained their salary as well hey, I want to pay myself this because that’s what I make now at this multi-million dollar company I want to leave. What you make before you start out on your own has nothing to do with what you should make while building up your new business. I don’t consider it begging. It’s a donation. And if they do well, they don’t have to make a large salary in the first couple of years, they’ll get their money back the same way as other owner’s make their money back with a successful business. You guys are free to give your money to whomever you want. I will do the same.

olaf · 2013-03-29T23:32:05.000Z

Murbella:

This.

If i back something, it is because i think the product is worth my money and that means i want to encourage its creation, and others like it, and this means having the creator being successful financial. Unlike some people, i understand that just because they are on kickstarter, doesn’t mean you can hire programmers for $20,000/year. If you want to see a good game (or widget) made, you need good talent and good talent doesn’t work for nothing.

Unless you’re making a music cd like half of kickstarter (please let me filter this shit for the love of god), kickstarter is not about begging, to me at least. I’m pledging money for a future product/service. As long as said product isn’t compromised by excessive personal compensation, i’m golden and i want you to make as much profit as possible.

Stretch goals should not be about finding ways to use up extra money. They should be used to encourage people to pledge more and pledge in general, similar to how preorder dlc is used to encourage people to preorder at retailers. It seems absolutely silly to expect a product based kickstarter to do more with more money when they are basically selling copies of whatever. Those presales are their profits. I do expect them to meet stated obligations though if they make stretch goals.

The exception to this is non product based kickstarters, which i don’t do. I’d imagine if i pledged for something that wasn’t based around selling me a product, i’d expect them to use the overflow money for something useful.

Agree. I probably wont ever back a Kickstarter for anything other than a videogame. But I hope all of them make shit tons of money, as long as they deliver their game!

gamadict · 2013-03-30T13:06:41.000Z

The kickstarter from the ecco the dolphin guys got disappointing real fast when the mockup was shown being played on a tablet and apparently their goal is to turn it into an MMO

zx81-Amd64 · 2013-03-31T04:40:45.000Z

Jon Shafer:

The entire community would be better off if people at both ends of the spectrum acknowledged that Kickstarter isn’t about good VS evil, but that it’s simply a way to get some potentially cool, unique projects funded.

Jon

100% agree. Also as a backer i can choose what projects i back or not, and i don’t have only KS rules to guide me. I couldn’t back Richard Garriet (and i love the ultima games!), even though the KS system allows me, I could back ‘Merrwether’ even though i have no idea if the game will be as awesome as any Ultima. We back what we feel we should (and it’s our money), and i’m all for personal choice, even if that can bring internet-rage into the issue.

Without crowd-funding we would all be the worse of for it, so i welcome our new crowd-funding overlords, even with the flaws. It’s a whole lot more positive and creative than it would be without them. We just have to be mindful to not always expect too much, there will be mistakes and bad endings, but that is just completely part of the process and my donating money does not make that any less a risk than if i was one of the investors that fund a AAA game for millions to lose it all from bad sales etc.

The only thing that you can be certain of in a crowd-funding model is that a bunch of stuff will get made that wouldn’t otherwise, and that is what we all want it seems? I know i certainly do.

Sparky2003 · 2013-03-31T08:00:14.000Z

Brad Grenz:

The most egregious part is the way she pretends that anything about her Kickstarter promotes Women in STEM fields. Literally none of the money does anything to promote that. Forget the Men’s Rights assholes, I don’t understand why the feminist blogs aren’t ripping her a new one for her transparent and cynical effort to co-opt a legitimate cause diverting funds that could be doing actual good to her own bank accounts.

It was bad enough when Garriott came rattling a tin for less money than he probably spends on moat cleaning or whacky theme parties, but paying some rich lady $$$'s to send her kid on holiday? Fuk dat. If you want to get MRAs mad donate to rape crisis or girl’s scholarship programs or something. Or send it to me I’ll promise to troll reddit for you.

zx81-Amd64 · 2013-04-01T11:56:04.000Z

A rare, and very interesting, update on the Meriwether Kickstarter thing: (Warning: turn down your volume settings for the intro music! Then crank it up to try to hear what people are saying. Then turn it down again for the outro music - you have been warned)

Kickstarter

Meriwether: An American Epic

Take command of the Corps of Discovery in this RPG based on the historic Lewis and Clark Expedition for PC, Mac, and Linux.

I’m secretly quite excited about it’s prospects.

robc04 · 2013-04-02T08:41:45.000Z

Worlds of Magic, a fantasy 4X with tactical battles now has a kickstarter project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game

Telefrog · 2013-04-02T09:30:59.000Z

Camelot Unchained is up: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

Dark Age of Camelot spiritual successor. Mark Jacobs is in charge.

mok · 2013-04-02T09:34:16.000Z

Wow, 2 million. It will be interesting to see if they can get there. Looks like they are off to a good start.

Charlatan · 2013-04-02T09:58:35.000Z

For some reason I feel like asking for 1 million and trying to raise 2 million would work out a lot better than asking for 2 million up front. 2 million seems like an absolute ton of money, and is an intimidating figure to look at. Will be interesting to see how this one develops.

CLWheeljack · 2013-04-02T11:14:36.000Z

Charlatan:

For some reason I feel like asking for 1 million and trying to raise 2 million would work out a lot better than asking for 2 million up front. 2 million seems like an absolute ton of money, and is an intimidating figure to look at. Will be interesting to see how this one develops.

Is 2 million the highest base goal we’ve seen in games? Next highest I can think of is $1.1 million or so.

JustinFletcher · 2013-04-02T11:33:44.000Z

Charlatan:

For some reason I feel like asking for 1 million and trying to raise 2 million would work out a lot better than asking for 2 million up front. 2 million seems like an absolute ton of money, and is an intimidating figure to look at. Will be interesting to see how this one develops.

Of course, if they actually needed two million, asked for one, and got 1.5, they’d be in quite a pickle.

mok · 2013-04-02T11:35:27.000Z

CLWheeljack:

Is 2 million the highest base goal we’ve seen in games? Next highest I can think of is $1.1 million or so.

Yes, looking at the “most funded games” the 2M request, if successful, looks like a record.

http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded#p1

I think Elite: Dangerous holds the current most requested record. (1.25M lbs == $1.889M)

Charlatan:

For some reason I feel like asking for 1 million and trying to raise 2 million would work out a lot better than asking for 2 million up front.

I disagree. The more accurate you can be about your needs the better. KS is so ripe for fraud it is only a matter of time otherwise…sooner or later something very bad will happen that will convince people KS for large $ projects was not such a good idea.

Cold_Blooded · 2013-04-02T13:44:20.000Z

Kickstarter page for Camelot Unchained," D.A.O.C. successor now up.

beloved_one · 2013-04-02T18:40:19.000Z

Cold Blooded:

Kickstarter page for Camelot Unchained," D.A.O.C. successor now up.

I know we’ve seen repeat kickstarters before, but another Camelot Unchained kickstarter only 4 hours after the first one? I know that has to be some kind of record.

But really, that pitch reminded me of how hollow the complaints about people paying their own salaries are – I mean, he pledged to invest at least 2 million of his own dollars in the initiative and not pay himself a salary. Well, okay. He looks to have started up a software company of artists and programmers with his own money already to make this kickstarter. I mean, is it really that impressive that he is not paying himself money out of his own pocket? I guess it assures you the company is not a scam, provided you believe his pledge not to take the KS money and run… But if you believe someone’s pledge you already don’t believe they are scamming you.

I mean, say you believe some little guy’s earnest pitch, but he is in such a situation that he has to use some of the money to feed, clothe, or house himself or his family… People really feel that’s such a negative? The alternative is this sort of pitch – ‘Got a few million laying around to start up a company, how about you folk go in 50-50/100 with me?’ We split the risk 50-50, I keep 100% of the profit and company equity. Hoorah?

Anyway, I’m 100% certain people will take this the wrong way (says a lot about my writing or rhetorical skills doesn’t it?), so I will try to clarify my actual position rather than just complaining about others’. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking for kickstarter funding, whether the requester is a billionaire or a bum. Fraud and lies are wrong, regardless of the person’s social standing.

geewhiz · 2013-04-02T19:36:01.000Z

I just took it as I am NOT that Lord British guy - I am investing my own money as well.

I look at it as a sort of marketing ploy (not saying it is bad or wrong - I can understand why he states this after the backlash concerning the space time millionaire)

mok · 2013-04-02T20:32:47.000Z

Kicktraq is reporting it at an average of $169 per pledger for Camelot. That’s a lot of deep pockets.

malkav11 · 2013-04-02T22:12:03.000Z

I just don’t get backing an MMO. Not only is it a hugely crowded genre, but it’s -still- (mystifyingly) one that publishers are willing to get behind, it’s one that I have trouble seeing work with a Kickstarter-sized budget, and the only business model where backers are really in a position to get much meaningful reward is a GW2 style up front purchase with eventual expansions.

Razgon · 2013-04-02T22:50:03.000Z

Cold Blooded:

Kickstarter page for Camelot Unchained," D.A.O.C. successor now up.

Its kinda whats been discussed the last few posts since Telefrog posted it ;-)

I’m in the Camelot kickstarter myself - I like Mr. Jacobs…His rants aside (And frankly, who doesnt rant on the internet at some point) he has always struck me as a passionate guy who loves games, and thats good enough for me. As for why backing MMO’s? I love’em!

beloved_one · 2013-04-03T00:01:20.000Z

Honestly, I was pretty put off to hear he was so into persistent RVR and that he had worked on Warhammer Online.

The RVR end game was easily the worst part of Warhammer Online. A game that, much like Camelot Unchained is supposed to, was supposed to excel at RVR. If Camelot Unchained RVR ends up anything at all like Warhammer online RVR, you couldn’t pay me to play it – and I really enjoy PVP.