I agree. Plus, I learned from the mistake I made while leveling my character. It would be completely boring to replay the game from the beginning to re-level your character to avoid the mistakes you made the first time. So, when II comes out i’ll already know and can start a character that will be better than the one I had in the original.
I always enjoyed staring new or playing mid level characters in PnP games. Speaking of which, I like to see a Star Frontiers game.
I wonder how the pie is being sliced, what with LucasArts getting some, BioWare getting some, and now Obsidian getting some?
Lucasarts get the money, Bioware get the credit and Obsidian get to make another game, if KOTOR2 is good.
This is sort of silly. There are good reasons for both approaches, and neither has anything to do with whether a game is on a console or a PC. In the case of KOTOR, the entire story, from the ground up, would not work at all if your character wasn’t a Jedi. Both are valid approaches to game design. Half-Life isn’t a “console kiddie” game because you have to play Gordon Freeman. The Ultima games aren’t “console kiddie” games because you have to play the Avatar. All games restrict player choices on some level–it’s just a question of whether the trade-offs are worth it in each specific case. In KOTOR, I think they absolutely were.
Why? Just because the game is called Morrowind, doesn’t mean you have to play as a Dark Elf.
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In Morriwind there is no tight focus and the main story line is sort of an aside it is more of a free form single player MMO.
[quote]As for the console kiddie comment. Give me a break.
Sorry, but no. It describes perfectly the difference in approach between KOTOR and Baldur’s Gate 2, which is an utterly PC-centric design. If it wasn’t, the PS2 Baldur’s Gate game wouldn’t have been a shoot-em-up.
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I am sorry but yes. BG:DA is nothing like KOTOR. It is an action RPG KOTOR is not by any stretch. The story in BG:DA is just there because you have to have one not so in KOTOR. Comparing BG:DA and KOTOR is a clueless comparison.
It seems to me that console games tend to be constrained by the limitations of the expected/desired audience as much as the platform they’re running on, Deus Ex 2 being another example. KOTOR was a step in the right direction for console RPGs, but not far enough for my tastes. We should be bringing everyone else up to our standards, not lowering ourselves to theirs, so to speak. Call me a snob, but I know what I like, and my money’s as good as anyone else’s.
The only thing constrained in DX2 is the size of the levels. Everything else was pretty much the same. I don’t see much that was constrained in KOTOR technically and nothing that was constrained designwise that wasn’t a good decision.
And the kiddie argument is incredibly stupid period. Console games are not only for kids. If you want to talk about a game aimed at kids that is one thing but there are a ton of adults who play console games. KOTOR was not aimed at kids or changed in anyway to make it friendly for kids, if you can’t figure that out then I can’t help you.
– Xaroc
Wasn’t this reported in PC Gamer a couple of issues back?
Peter
And the kiddie argument is incredibly stupid period. Console games are not only for kids. If you want to talk about a game aimed at kids that is one thing but there are a ton of adults who play console games.
My 8 year old neice games exclusively on the PC. Carmen Sandiego and various other educational titles aimed exclusively at kids.
PC gaming elitists need to realize fun is the only important thing. If a console game is fun, it’s just as valid as an equally fun PC game, regardless of depth of plot or complexity of control/interface.
Yes, as I pointed out. All I’m saying is that I’d like a bit more choice in KOTOR2.
Both are valid approaches to game design. Half-Life isn’t a “console kiddie” game because you have to play Gordon Freeman.
Feel free to move the argument to mean whatever you like, but I was talking about RPGs on consoles.
There’s as much of a tightly focused storyline as you want to follow, and you’re the star of it, and you can be any character you like.
Comparing BG:DA and KOTOR is a clueless comparison.
I wasn’t comparing KOTOR with BGDA, I was comparing it with BG2, and my point was that the design of the two are different because of the platform and the audience. I want more games like KOTOR to appear on consoles, because it will bring console gamers closer to the sort of games I like. I mentioned BGDA because it’s an example of the sort of console RPGs I don’t like.
The only thing constrained in DX2 is the size of the levels. Everything else was pretty much the same.
Yes, both platforms were designed for the lowest common denominator of the two, the Xbox, and the game suffered for that as a whole - it wasn’t just the size of the levels, it was myriad other changes over the original - interface being one of the most prominent.
And the kiddie argument is incredibly stupid period. Console games are not only for kids. If you want to talk about a game aimed at kids that is one thing but there are a ton of adults who play console games. KOTOR was not aimed at kids or changed in anyway to make it friendly for kids, if you can’t figure that out then I can’t help you.
Jesus Christ, way to run away with a flippant comment. It was used to describe the difference between the approach in design for RPG on console and PC, and the audiences such designs are aimed at - i.e, a console RPG is by default aimed at a wider audience than a PC equivalent. You’ve obviously taken it to mean that I think all console gamers are children or adults who’ve never grown up. That would be stupid, because I own a PS2. I even play games on it.
I understand that you have to play as Carth in this game…
They wouldn’t dare.
There’s as much of a tightly focused storyline as you want to follow, and you’re the star of it, and you can be any character you like.
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Sorry the story in Morrowind is nowhere near as tightly woven or compelling as the one in KOTOR to the point where a lot of people just ignore the main storyline and run around doing what they want. I know I did.
[quote]The only thing constrained in DX2 is the size of the levels. Everything else was pretty much the same.
Yes, both platforms were designed for the lowest common denominator of the two, the Xbox, and the game suffered for that as a whole - it wasn’t just the size of the levels, it was myriad other changes over the original - interface being one of the most prominent.
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The interface is perfectly workable. I don’t see what the real problem is. It certainly didn’t effect the gameplay one whit.
[quote]And the kiddie argument is incredibly stupid period. Console games are not only for kids. If you want to talk about a game aimed at kids that is one thing but there are a ton of adults who play console games. KOTOR was not aimed at kids or changed in anyway to make it friendly for kids, if you can’t figure that out then I can’t help you.
Jesus Christ, way to run away with a flippant comment. It was used to describe the difference between the approach in design for RPG on console and PC, and the audiences such designs are aimed at - i.e, a console RPG is by default aimed at a wider audience than a PC equivalent. You’ve obviously taken it to mean that I think all console gamers are children or adults who’ve never grown up. That would be stupid, because I own a PS2. I even play games on it.[/quote]
That flippant comment is a complete troll. Also, even as you describe it I think it has no merit in this case. I don’t think the design team sat down and said let’s only let them play jedi because we want to appeal to a bigger audience. I think they said let’s make a game where the player plays a jedi with a really tight storyline. It was a design tradeoff that you just don’t seem to get. If you want a tightly woven story you may have to sacrifice some flexiblity to get there.
– Xaroc
Lucasarts get the money, Bioware get the credit and Obsidian get to make another game, if KOTOR2 is good.[/quote]
Cynical, but that is, historically, how these arrangements tend to work.
I would really like it if you could design your character in some fashion in a future Star Wars game that isn’t Galaxies, but eh… KOTOR1 was great, so here’s to hoping KOTOR2 is also great. At least with “more of the same” in this case, you are still getting a fun game to play. :)
They wouldn’t dare.[/quote]
Yes they would. Control Carth as he whines and mopes across the galaxy!