KOTOR no-go?

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else been completely unable to get KOTOR to run? I’ve done all of the blah,blah, blah stuff and it just does not get past the opening load screen. This is the first time in a long while I have never been able to get a game to run. Athlon 2600+, ATI 9800 (3.7), Lite-on drives, XP.

Try CAT 3.10s. These also allow you to enable soft shadows in the game without the dreaded performance hit.

I went to the Troubleshooting tab for my 9600 pro and set the hardware accelleration back one notch. This disables the mouse pointer acceleration. The pointer flickers, but the game runs, or at least it did for me. Hope this helps,


I’m pretty annoyed with KOTOR, and it is currently waiting out its time in purgatory, until the next patch is released. It started off crashing every few minutes, before I patched it and updated the graphics cards drivers, then it only crashed, randomly, every 30-60 minutes. That was bearable enough to get as far into the game as collecting the swoop bike engine, and returning to the Hidden Bek base, only to find that I couldn’t get into the building. Instead, it would dump me back to the main menu, and freeze the mouse so I had to alt-tab out. This wasn’t just a random crash bug, though, this was a full-on show-stopping bug that meant that all the hours I had put into the game were wasted. Even going back a few saves made no difference.

After reading the tech forums, I discovered that this was not an uncommon problem. In fact one of many threads on the “Hidden Beks” bug went on for over 12 pages. Not only did this show-stopping bug affect the Hidden Beks base, but cropped up in multiple other parts of the story, meaning that even if you got past that section, you could still be screwed later on in the game. The only fix is to get a save far enough back, or restart, and then use the cheats to warp to the affected areas to make sure that you can get there, saving every few minutes so that you can go back a save to a safe restore point.

Most of the people I speak to have problems with it, ranging from not being able to run or install it, to constant crashing, and the GameSpot review devotes a good paragraph to its problems. Due to the number, and severity, of bugs and the people who suffer from them, this is no way a GOTY on the PC. I can only imagine that many of the people who voted for this instead of the other titles in Q23’s unofficial PC GOTY poll were xbox players.

Just for the hell of it, I recently sent LucasArts a letter asking for a refund. For me, the game doesn’t work, it doesn’t work for a lot people, and I don’t have the patience or desire to fool with it anymore. I want my money back. This is the reply. I particularly like where they ask me to basically scam the retailer.

"Thank you for your message,

If you purchased the game directly from us (though our Direct Sales department that can be reached by sending a message to [email protected]) then we would be happy to arrange for you to receive a refund from the Direct Sales office (within 30 days of purchase date). However, if the game was purchased at a retailer, I regret to inform you that I will not be able to issue you a refund. Unfortunately, LucasArts does not have any retail function or capacity. If you would still like to pursue a refund, I would strongly suggest you contact the retail establishment where the game was purchased.

However, if your retailer will not refund your money due to the package being opened, I would be happy to exchange your opened copy of the game for a new, shrink-wrapped copy. We have found that retail establishments are often more willing to accept a return if the game has not been opened. If you decide to send the game to us for a new replacement copy, please see the mailing information below for further reference:

Attn: Product Support
PO Box 10307
San Rafael, CA 94912

NOTE: Please attach a short note specifying that you need a replacement of the item sent with your name and address also appearing on the note.

Hope this helps!

May the Force be with you,

LucasArts Technical Support"

Wow. What an embarrasing business letter.

I don’t know, that sounds like a pretty good deal to me. They are offering to replace your old copy, with a brand new shrink-wrapped copy. At the very least, that will increase its value if you can’t get a refund at the store you bought it from, when you sell it on Ebay.

I think you’d get a similar response from any major studio, but probably without the offer to replace your existing copy.

Sounds like an okay deal to me.

Yeah, they’ll replace their defective (at least for him) product with one just as equally defective.

The only reason retailers won’t take an opened software package back is they assume it was copied. Which is a nice way of saying, “We’ve sold you something that’s defective, but we won’t take it back because we think you’re a f’ing thief. Have a nice day, and may the Force be with you.”

Wow, this sounds eerily like my ongoing experience with Morrowind for PC. Now I’m glad I got ants in my pants when KotOR debuted for the Hex-box and broke down and got it then!

I had an interesting discussion with BioWare joint-CEOs Drs. Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk about these issues some days or weeks after I pointed a lot of them out in my review. Dr. Ray did most of the talking and basically insisted that the “bugs” in KOTOR are really just driver issues and/or mostly just client-side problems, as opposed to problems intrinsic to the game itself. Basically, he was suggesting that it wasn’t the game’s and/or BioWare’s “fault.”

I personally don’t care as to whose fault it is, at least not in the context of a review. Someone who buys KOTOR and tries to play it, but cannot, is going to be frustrated, yet isn’t necessarily going to look for someone to blame; he or she will just try to get a refund. I pointed out that on at least two machines, I was quite certain that I had all the latest drivers installed (albeit the Catalyst 3.10 drivers weren’t available at the time of my review). If those latest drivers were in fact the problems, then the system requirements ought to point out what, precisely, you need to run the game. Or, an auto-updater should point out any potentially faulty settings, systems, or drivers.

The bottom line, as far as I’m concerned, is it’s not acceptable, from a consumer’s standpoint, to buy a game, install it on a machine meeting or exceeding all the minimum requirements, and then not get it to work. That’s the sort of ridiculous thing that’s been leading some people to justifiably ditch the PC as a gaming platform like rats fleeing a sinking ship. Anyway, I reckon BioWare is pretty frustrated over all this; they seemed to be under the impression that the game was tested absolutely thoroughly, so all these issues apparently came as a surprise.

The PC as a platform definitely seems to be in an awkward stage right now. Microsoft seems intent on sorting some of this mess out with Longhorn, and I’m perfectly fine with that–someone’s got to do something.

I really don’t know how LucasArts offered me a “good deal”. I’m in the restaurant business and if someone is unhappy with their food or wine in one of my restaurants and they do not want a replacement dish or bottle then I do not charge them. It’s that simple. KOTOR does not work on my machine. I am out $50. I don’t want to have to try and get my money back on eBay.

Actually, maybe software should be like a restaurant: you pick up the game, get it to run on your machine, play it, THEN you pay for it. Hell, I’ll even leave a tip.

Sounds good to me. Actually, several sites are already offering free, downloadable trial versions of games (including some pretty good stuff like Civ III and Temple of Elemental Evil), which you get to play for a limited time, and then may opt to pay for when the trial period is over. These trial versions aren’t demos–they’re the full game.

Hey! Just like Suprnova!

Or, maybe everything about this thread can be boiled down to:

As a PC Game Enthusiast and PC Game purchaser, I am fucking sick and tired of Game Publishers automatically assuming I am a software pirate, 100%, considered guilty always.

Buy a broken sick dog of a game? Too fucking bad. Nobody will take it back any more (although EB will deign to give you 20%-30% of the game’s new value for trade-in, woo), because you are a fucking software pirate, pal.

Buy a game that assumes you are a software pirate before you even take off the shrinkwrap (e.g. ultraintrusive and incompatible jackoffs like Securom). Tough fucking shit, Mr. (or Mrs.) PC owner – we know that all you do with that burner is spend 100% of your time and CPU cycles downloading the latest Ju4R3Z0RZ from EMule, burning them to CD, and selling them in the Ukraine.

Fuck. No wonder I went and followed the Tuba’s Top 10 list and went out and purchased Culcept and Dark Cloud 2. Pop in, turn on console, play. No continual litany of “it’s not our fault, it’s yours” bugs, no shit like CD protection so h4xor3d that I can’t even TAKE OUT THE CD WITHOUT REBOOTING MY COMPUTER.


–All the bitches love me 'cuz they know that I can rock

You know, that’s funny. They said exactly the same thing when a cavalcade of bugs and lockups started appearing in the Xbox version. They were under the impression that the game was tested absolutely thoroughly, so all those issues apparently came as a surprise. Kind of distressing that after being “surprised” by how buggy the game was in its xbox incarnation, they release a buggy PC version, and are, again, “surprised.” Their surprise is the only thing that surprises me, quite frankly.

The computer software industry is the only industry that I can think of that is legally allowed to issue a license agreement that basically says, “This product is not guaranteed to run as advertised or run at all. If it blows up your computer, it’s not our fault and you have no legal recourse against us. We are not obligated to refund your money for any reason.”

That being said, KOTOR ran without a hitch on my P2.8, 9700 Pro system.

XBox version never crashed for me. I also didn’t use Mission in “that section” so I didn’t run into the well-documented stealth bug. 100% bug-free in my experience.

There’s a very solid difference between game bugs, and hardware issues. Most issues are of the unfixable-by-dev hardware variety. If it’s a game bug, it’s usually pretty obvious (like on the xbox, the mission bug).

Anyway, all this is is another reason to stick with consoles. I fucking detest the PC as a gaming platform. Love the monitor, keyboard, and mouse, but if I could just buy a black box guaranteed to work with everything, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Problem with the console is I don’t like the games (mostly). I also don’t want to play on the television, so I’d have to hook it up to the monitor anyhow…