What is the scenario where 1500+ attack leon, at say 80% health, hits an Infantry + maids Elwin (not at 100% before maids, but he wasn’t far from it) with <1100 attack and 700 defense and barely does damage?
That seems very odd. Even if bloodline procs it wouldn’t explain it. Maybe if the maids had fantastic troop training, their troop bonus does more than cancel out troop advantage (45% vs ~30%) and if they had invested Core ATK/DEF etc… If Leon is using Angels, below ~75% unit health (50% troop health) they lose their attack bonus, Leon loses Legion below 90%…so maybe. I’m guessing this is world arena? Too bad you can’t share/scrutinize world arena matches like you can with Apex.
Leon did not have Legion (by which I mean I was obviously below the 90% threshold). It’s possible I was lower than I thought and no angels attack bonus. Elwin had Mirror Armor on; the proc there must have kicked the angels below their threshold. That actually makes sense. Shit didn’t think about that.
PVP remains pretty miserable. I am 3-5 in WA today trying to get my 5 wins. I lost the game that Leon situation happened in, but I lost it because I stupidly moved Elwin and Liana in the wrong order and didn’t get mobility debuff immunity on Ledin and lost Bozel and someone else that way.
But that’s the only match I had a snowballs chance in hell in that was played. My 3 wins are bot, bot, d/c. The rest of my losses:
- The 1300+ post deploy attack aoe melee team with Sakura, Leonhardt, and Joshua.
- The team with 3 1200+ int mages and I can’t remember what else
- A couple of 850-900+ defense Landius with Leon-like attack values, beefy listells and Zeridas I couldn’t do anything with, etc.
I’ll get to five wins but I don’t understand why every week it feels like evertyhing is at an extreme. The bot wins were easy; yes it’s bots but the teams were considerably less powerful.
Ok I will lose this because I’m bad but at least this game looks fairly even. Finally, an even matchup. Awww, shit the dude left. It was winnable for him, especially against me. Le sigh.
Kyrios
1724
I pretty much always first-ban Zerida in Apex, and sometimes I think… am I wasting some opportunity for more value here? Not everyone can have a 6-star OP Zerida that just completely dictates the match, can they? And then any week where I spend a real amount of time in World Arena instead of just grabbing 5 wins in casual, I see that yes, yes they can and probably do. Which is to say that I feel your pain.
(My stupid WA loss this week was because I mis-counted my Leonhardt location by one square and let him get one-shot by a Zerida, in a match where I had the advantage at every other position. Felt really dumb after that.)
Honestly I have some trouble with the 5s as well. Basically if they deploy at 5 she’s usually still otherwise really built up, and she can still cross vast distances. I occasionally see mediocre Zerida’s in WA. But it’s like once a month tops.
All of these uber Landius both make me depressed and at least give me something to shoot for (although, sheehs, I have most of my bonds squared away at like 6200 power and I’m way off in defense).
These days I first ban Listell. In most cases it’s the same result, they pick tank, I ban Zerida + LH/Rachel/etc. Zerida at least I can usually trade units (or I take 2 tanks and kind of wall off my other units depending on map) but Listell is just a pain when I don’t have any bracers (unlike everyone else, it seems).
This week in WA I fought a Landius/Listell/Bozel/Liana/Omega, vs my Landius/Listell/Bozel/Liana/Zerida. I traded my Zerida for his Omega (they one shot each other) and I was doing okay, until I tried to blood dance his Landius/Listell/Liana. All 3 had fixed damage immunity. I lost shortly after. Wish the bracer immunity at least showed on the character effects panel.
In short, even if you run a toxic team like me, there’s always someone else running a more toxic team!
@peacedog Apex should be a lot more welcoming environment now that a lot day1 players have moved on to Gold or Langrisser ranks.
I can get behind all the gear immunities. There’s interesting tradeoffs there! But I think I agree that it should show them. You might be at an extreme disadvantage when someone can counter a character’s core like that, but atl east you have some chance to deal with it if you know once the battle starts. Having to waste turns in setup and then lose a turn trying something that doesn’t work is. . . ugh. Bad. Insult to injury.
It still makes me wonder why there’s a character who can get so many free immunities on top of everything else though (Zerida). Ugh.
I never got back around to trying Apex over the hollidays after my first failed foray. Maybe I’ll give it a go this weekend.
Kyrios
1728
I feel like if someone wants to go Listell first and then play without one of the two good tanks, I can usually beat them, or at least I’ve got a pathway that will give me a really good shot. (Also a balance problem: two tanks that are so much better than any other tanks.) A Zerida super-aggro group can still give me a lot of trouble, especially because if I take the opportunity to ban the two tanks they can grab a faction buffer for her and let her run Alhazard-wild.
@peacedog - my Landius is beefier than yours, 6600 or so now, and still way, way short of what it seems like most people are running for atk/def. As far as I can tell, my shortfall is split pretty evenly between only being 5*, not having one of the 5%-everything accessories that seem perfect for him, and having only very good instead of perfect enchants. With only two real tank choices (back to that!), I think most of the serious PvPers have them as the absolute top priority for enchants and AB stats.
I do think you’ll find Apex pretty playable in Silver, especially if it’s a weekend where the mercenaries fit well with your team. I can usually only get in one or two matches a weekend and it’s pretty obvious week-to-week that I’m moving more ‘slowly’ than the serious players, and things get relatively easier.
Ahh yes Overlords (yet al). Want one, who doesn’t, not much to be done about it. I think my enchants are probably below you - B/maybe B+ here or there. I don’t even know what makes a B+ enchant anyway. My armor on Landius is 10% Def/9% hp/3% attack. B+? Surely the HP and bit of attack are worth more than 5% more def but shrug.
Most weeks I buy thorn enchants and roll then on him but twice in December I went in other directions to help get people geared for AB. I’ll probably be returning to that next week. Rolling enchants on monday is my least favorite part of the week by far.
You know, we can have a reasonable debate about wehter Mastery stones were a good idea. But at least we can target enchants with them. I’ve come to loath the regular enchanting system.
That’s a good point, I think I lost a game exactly like that. I banned Listell, he picked Zerida, I banned Jugler/Landius but he had a backup Ledin, and his Zerida was the death of me. Still, I absolutely hate playing against Listell, it’s so hard to figure out whether it’s possible to one shot her these days.
That’s an A enchant in my books, my Landius has the same enchant on helm with 1% less Atk and I was pretty happy with that (well, until now! :))
Testarossa probably has better :P
Like I don’t see even trying to reroll that for a long time. The Weapon is 13%/9 Attack, so I will roll on that (taking anything that’s not an attack reduction % wise with a good hp roll). Both helm and acc need work. But getting 3 of the “right” roll, let alone decent to good rolls, is just too much of a gamble.
Kyrios
1733
8% def / 5% hp / 3% atk on armor for me, so very much in the same family. I did pull a 10% atk / 23 atk / 6% hp on the weapon, though. :D
(And of all the cruel things, 10% atk / 7% def / 9% crit on the Holy Ark that will need to eventually be replaced with a badge/emblem.)
For what it’s worth, our enchants here seem to be much better than I what I normally see on the mercenaries (how about that weird attack Jugler?)
I just went and looked at some of the top ranked players on the server to see what their top 6 looked like. I mean it was less “within 5-8 total percent of 3 perfect rolls galore” than I thought. But there was some pretty sick stuff for sure.
1.17M for Jorm, tantalizingly close to B. But I’m not sure I can get there. Although. . .
On the one hand, I fight the entire fight with Juggler having zero weapons equipped. Thus not getting 2+2 bonuses and on the times he attacked, doing a little bit less damage. OTOH, my real hangup is keeping people healed. Tiaris and Sophia can’t kjeep u. I made mistakes. I probably should have taken mass heal on both (and no prayer, although arguably I should ditch red buff because I only got to cast it a few times_). It also didn’;t help that I forgot the phase 1 3rd attack is a 5x2 line, not 5x infinity (it took to the 3rd casting to remember, LOL).
I should probably remove Sophia’s speed boots and give her a healing accessory, doh. But her gear is behind (30 Left Hand, 30 galaxy cloak, sage hat). I mean all the healer gear is behind, it is what it is. Although I ought to put a Tennyo helm on her over Sage Hat.
So maybe I will try again tomorrow, with an actual weapon on Jugler and a better accessory on Sophia. Liff and Narm performance here was ok, not amazing (by the time this comes around again I hope to have buffed both a bit; in fairness Narm is better than she was last time around). Maybe I should try Leonhardt and not worry about a perfect 4 interchanged attacks in phase 2. I don’t always get to attack with Jugler anyway, and I can alternate Leon + Luna with Liff, who did last longer than Narm. Hmm.
B/1.33M is where I tap out.
I got to phase 2 again. The first time the 5x damage single target attack came up (the third turn), Jorm decided hed wasn’t going to target Jugler and I couldn’t figure out a way around this without losing someone. Things fell apart quickly from there as I used up all my clocks trying to work around it and accidentally wound up back in a scenario where he killed Tiaris.
A big part of the problem for me in the fight is that while I’ve gotten the damage to a decent level, two of the DPS are still pretty squishy. Healing can only do so much, with all the other mechanics flying around.
Still, it’s a clear upgrade over what i think was a D/D+ last time I did the fight. I have 6 archer attack stones (among many others) so I might try to get some upgrades on Narm/Alustriel before their next big fight (they’re both in the low 40s from attack from mastery stones, so this won’t be a huge upgrade). Also, I am closing in on Alustriel’s 4th mastery but probably can’t get it until monday because no guild points.
Kyrios
1738
I also improved from D-something to mid-B this time. I might try again before it closes to shoot for B+, which could be in reach with a few low-hanging improvements… or I might just take the day or two to pump H&M characters and finish the cycle strong.
Basically all of my improvement was from having Jugler this time, along with a better feel for the fight. I bring Joshua, Luna, and Leonhardt as my three DPS… Leonhardt actually ends up doing a lot of the tanking; I need to play around with it to see if it’s the positioning or the stats. I do find it pretty interesting that this fight is much more mix and match in terms of there not really being optimal DPS picks (after Luna, anyways). Gerold and Layla actually seem super appealing here if there was much other reason to have them built up to a decent level; the extra passive healing seems like it would ease the overall healing burden quite a bit.
I looked at some of the top people and some were just running 3 dps + 3 healer. Granted, a 36k+ team (Jayce’s is like 41k lol) is going to be strong no matter how you slice it.
I wonder if Leonhardt would be better for me simply because he’s sturdier overall than Narm, and mine is wearing boots right now so a swap to say a Slayer’s Emblem would really boost DPS further. Given that my Juggler doesn’t attack all the time a 2x melee 1x ranged (or vice versa, if you have it) could certainly work. It’s not like I attacked with Liff/Narm all the time anyway (stacks, couldn’t get healing, etc).
But I’m sort of exhausted and focusing on H&M anyway (I’ve already cleared out my low hanging fruit sadly). Still maybe I’ll tey again tomorrow, it won’t hurt.
Also, I had one of those crazy dragon days. Odin’s (my third), Aeneas, Loki, and an Assault helm in 6 sweeps. Nothing great, although I sense that having a handful of Odin’s will be nice in the long run.
So I knocked out some Twists of Fate missions today and now I have a 40 Jugler helm (and no more spirits). And an Ice enchant of 7% hp, 9%/13 def. Which is nice, right up until I decide not to run 2+2 blue but look I can’t think that far ahead.
Tomorrow I cap Alustriel and also gather some keys from TT for Alustirel/Narm in anticipation of H&M. This is all terribly exciting!
