I also have 2 versions of my resume: one with the job title for what I do; and one with the job title that HR gave me because that’s the req I took. The last one I hand in right before the background check to make it easier on them. I haven’t had a problem with it since HR knows that happens all the time.
I’m just saying in addition to what you wrote about “their work should be reviewed, and if it’s good let them finish”. Their past work is irrelevant at this point since I assume they have been graded on it, but if they continue to do poorly and the school holds them accountable with grades that reflect that, they can be removed.
That’s not really how it works. If they found out you cheated on tests, if you copied your papers, or someone did them for you… it doesn’t matter what grade you received. You can have your degrees, certs, anything official taken. They can certainly and should boot them for academic dishonesty… if that’s happening.
I was using past tense because this went on for years so the students that went through these and finished, they should be reviewed but if they don’t find anything, leave them alone.
Sure. It would have to be decided on a case by case basis to see if there is evidence that a student actively cheated, or if the school screwed up and allowed the student to slide by and get good grades with crappy work, for more political reasons.
But that’s not equivalent to what happened here. We’re not talking about fudging a little on a resume. We’re talking about the equivalent to claiming a degree or qualification you didn’t earn.
These kids were admitted to schools that they wouldn’t have been admitted to without fraud. “Don’t worry about getting caught …once your kids are in, they can’t be removed” sends a pretty fucked-up message. It’s not like famous actors and hedge-fund managers are going to face any real consequences, so this basically says go ahead and cheat.
We’re talking about resumes because someone else, see above, brought it up. That wasn’t me.
I stand by what I originally said. Unless the student was actually part of the crime, it solves nothing by yanking them out. Evaluate their work. If it’s up to snuff, let them complete the program. There is no way to go back and be fair. These are children, barely adult at worst. Their parents did them a disfavor and there is evidence that many of them were not aware. It says it right there in the official documents.
There’s some crazy stuff flying about in this thread.
Comparisons to jobs:
scenario 1)
A personal reference or former employer lied in a positive manner through no suggestion of yours, influencing the company to hire you. The company hired you with incorrect information through no fault of your own.
scenario 2)
An HR rep screwed up their files by mixing up your data with a better applicant, and therefore decided to hire you based in part on incorrect information through no fault of your own.
- Should you be fired and why? Note, this doesn’t say you’re not qualified. Sometimes it’s just a numbers game.
- What if you’ve been doing the job and got employee of the month for 4 years running when they find out about the error?
- What if you let other job opportunities pass by because as far as you knew you had a secure job this whole time - would you have the basis for a lawsuit against this employer? (IANAL, just a bit of supposition)
- What about any better applicants who got passed over incorrectly - do they have any recourse?
It solves the problem of rewarding fraud. These students should be removed and allowed to re-apply with their current college coursework taken into consideration. The ones who were doing well can be re-admitted after being judged fairly.
I think this would be a fair approach, but it’s not realistic. This would be a legal nightmare for the schools.
Many of the kids did not commit fraud. Their parents and the people involved will wind-up paying for the crimes they actually committed
Also this needs to happen more often:
Because it’s just silly fun.
LOL - yeah, that is
I’m not sure that caring more about defending a legal challenge than the reputation of their school’s admissions process is very rational. Presumably they have large legal departments.
You don’t think they’re going to be punished? It might not be something with an official stamp but anyone who has a parent on that list… the shadow will follow them regardless. They’ll be punished enough, assuming they are not one of the ones that participated in the crimes, and they might even transfer or drop to avoid it.
It seems pretty rational when you’re dealing with consequences for very rich people, each one who can afford expensive lawyers. I don’t care how large your legal department is, that is going to be a very expensive endeavor.
The reputation is already shot, the damage done. I’m not sure how taking action against innocent students makes it any better. The damaged parties, imho, are the students who lost their spots to these students.
I was thinking this exact same thing. Those parents are named in the public indictment along with the names of the schools. If those kids are still enrolled, chances are that 70% of their classmates know about it by now… and the rest of their semester is NOT going to be a lot of fun.
Let’s face it - no matter what happens to kids (nothing, expulsion, forced to reapply, etc), they’re not really going to be affected much by it. They’ll inherit the wealth from their parents someday, have their own kids to pamper, and the disparity between the ultra-wealthy and the rest of us will continue to grow. Rich privileged kids already get away with rape and other felonies - what’s a little academic crime on top of that?
So, basically, we just continue rewarding people with deep pockets and a willingness to commit fraud. Just get em in, doesn’t matter how. Once they’re in, they can’t be removed.
Why does any of this preclude action against the parents and bribed school officials?
No, we should punish the people who committed the fraud for the fraud that they committed. People should go to jail for orchestrating this. The kids had nothing to do with paying people off to fake their test scores, and the colleges have no reason to be shouldering the burden of punishing the kids for that.