Latest Bush speech

So apparently he lied through his teeth to justify all the torturing.

First, according to Ron Suskind, Abu Zubaydah didn’t clam up because he was “trained to resist interrogation,” but because he has the mental capacity of a retarded child. Second, the idea that Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation tipped off the U.S. to the existence of Ramzi bin Al Shibh is just an outright lie. A Nexis search for “Ramzi Binalshibh” between September 11, 2001 and March 1, 2002–the U.S. captured Abu Zubaydah in March 2002–turns up 26 hits for The Washington Post alone. Everyone involved in counterterrorism knew who bin Al Shibh was. Now-retired FBI Al Qaeda hunter Dennis Lormel told Congress who Ramzi bin Al Shibh was in February 2002. Abu Zubaydah getting waterboarded and spouting bin Al Shibh’s name did not tell us anything we did not already know.

Of course, most Americans don’t have access to Nexis. And most Americans don’t remember–and can’t be expected to remember–newspaper coverage of Al Qaeda for a seven-month stretch between the attacks and Abu Zubaydah’s capture. Bush is exploiting that ignorance to tell the American people an outright lie in order to convince them that we need to torture people. As Bush once said in another context, if this is not evil, then evil has no meaning.

God fucking damn it.

I forget, did you start threads with “God fucking damn it” in them with stories of Americans being beheaded or their burnt corpses dragged through streets?

I’m not comparing the two, I’m just genuinely curious.

Which threatens liberty more - extremists cutting off people’s heads, or the Leader of the Free World lying to justify torture of people that have not been charged with a crime?

One is a tragedy on a human scale, the other threatens our existence as a nation. Which one makes you angrier?

I get the feeling Cherub’s one of those Americans who doesn’t actually like a large portion of what America is supposed to stand for.

I’m sure it makes Bob very happy to finally find someone eager to debate on his terms.

When the crux of your question is “Did you really expect the President to behave better than a terrorist?” you’re probably not going to get an answer that satisfies you.

Yes, actually.

If we trolls don’t feed one another, then who will?


Bob is just the right wing version of the type of angry party warrior that is abundant in great presence here on the left. I’m not sure why he deserves such ire, when the same thing is slung about from the opposite direction without a batted eyelash.

Yes, I hate America.

I want us to fail in Iraq, I want our economy to tank, I want the world to hate us, I want gas prices to soar, I want the housing bubble to burst, I want another terrorist attack to show how vulnerable we are, I want to censor movies that say bad things about our leaders, I want us to mishandle Iran and North Korea, I want the race war to never end.

Oh wait, I just described myself as a Democrat.

Crap, Bob’s onto us.

I’m not going to defend myself against your wife-beating accusations, you dumb ass.

So, Bob - about the actual thread you posted in - if you can be distracted from attacking posters long enough to say something with any actual fucking content in it, that is - do you actually have an opinion on the President outright lying to justify torture? Does it bother you? Are you okay with it? Why or why not, either way? Could you possibly contribute something, some kind of opinion or position to a thread, just once?

Or are you only capable of sniping, flaming, trolling, and running?

I’d agree with you, if Bob ever actually made any arguments, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him do anything other than pop into a thread to make a short post which boils down to “liberals are stupid.” He may have perfectly cogent political opinions, but he ACTS like a simple troll.

Yeah, what was your problem with that Reagan miniseries anyways?

I think that depends on whether or not it’s covered in his talking points.

Terrorists do not threaten our way of life, we’ve proven that. We cry, we make national resolutions, we over-react. But, life goes on and we’re still Americans.

Presidents have more power than that. Presidents giving a green light to torture is fundamentally un-American. We can’t become what we hate, and yet here we are. Bush is a threat to America.

Let’s see, Fail in Iraq. Why not appoint incompetent boobs who think they will greet us as liberators and have no backup plan. Also, lets only send a fifth of the troops asked for, ignore international help, and fire anyone who disagrees, That’s a good way to fail. Bush does it.

Economy to tank. Ok, lets increase federal spending more than LBJ while growing the debt to never before seen levels. Bush does it.

World to hate us. Well, lets see, the whole Bolton thing, plus penciling in invasion dates no matter what the evidence suggest. Bush does it.

Gas prices to soar. I know, lets take a decently contained nations and throw the region into chaos, get the pipelines blown up and kiss the Saudis. Bush does it.

Housing bubble to burst. Lets keep interest rates artifically low so that everyone will go all out on variable rate mortgages, then lets re-define the bankruptcy laws so that the creditors own your ass. Bush does it.

Another terrorist attack. Cool! lets disband the office that’s hunting Osama, Fail to inspect the cargo containers, let pakistan form a truce with the Taliban, and bomb a bunch of arabs to get them REAL pissed off. Bush does it.

I want to censor… Lets see, the NASA bit about censorship, removing evolutionary biology from federal grants, and jacking up FCC fines absurdly because of a stray nipple. Bush does it.

Mishandle Iran and North Korea. Well, they’re following the Iraq playbook step by step for Iran. If you don’t think Iraq was mishandled… Well, Bush is doing it.

I want the race war to never end. Katrina. 600 thousand dollars per citizen of New Orleans has been spent and they’re still living in trailers. Bush FTW!

I never knew Bush was a democrat.

First, according to Ron Suskind, Abu Zubaydah didn’t clam up because he was “trained to resist interrogation,” but because he has the mental capacity of a retarded child.

Who is Ron Suskind and on what basis does he make this claim? There was no further reference to it in the blahg, nor was it linked that I could find.