Lawyerly law stuff that's interesting


The whole ‘medical profession’ has not come to any particular conclusion on the best way to treat each transgender case. I’m suggesting some doctors are indeed caving to pressures though, in some cases, and that’s not helping patients – as the data show.


Also that isn’t what it said. You’re just making things up at this point.


From the study:

The anxiety and depression don’t always overlap.


This is bizarre. You are looking at transgender individuals who have made it to graduate school, thus discounting those who have been so depressed as youth that they were unable to obtain admission to a rarefied environment like that. It’s not so great a comparison.


That’s a gross misrepresentation of our discussion so far.

You are plainly saying that it is trivial for even a layman to look at the statistics and see the prescribed treatments are not efficacious.

I rather suggest you are a making grievous errors of judgement when interpreting clinical statistics.

Why would you leap to such strong conclusions about matters that - as you’re demonstrating quite clearly - you know very little about?


No, it showed:
“The rates of depressive symptoms (51.4% for transgender women; 48.3% for transgender men) and anxiety (40.4% for transgender women; 47.5% for transgender men) within the current study far surpass the rates of those for the general population.”

Exbibiting depressive symptoms is not the same as being clinically depressed.

There’s nothing about it which makes it a bad comparison at all. It’s a situation where essentially everything else is the same, except for that aspect.

That’s exactly what you want if you are trying to find a correlation.


Considering that on 6.7% of American suffer from depression, a rate of 51% is astronomical on relative basis.
Obviously there is a chicken-egg problem does gender dysphoria cause depression, or does depression
and other mental illness manifest as gender dysphoria .

It certainly leads to reasonable speculation, if treating gender dysphoria is always the right course or should they focus treating other mental illness. To give a specific example, I have online acquaintance, who is convinced that he is a lesbian in a mans body. He has talked (and talked and talked) about starting gender transformation but over a couple years never done anything. He is clearly depressed and paranoid, but I’m pretty sure in reality he is a straight guy, that has trouble with relating to girls. I do as he requests and call him her. But I always question if I’m I really doing the guy a favor. I think he really needs a better shrink, not gender re-assigned.


It didn’t say 51% suffer from depression.


The rates of depressive symptoms (51.4% for transgender women; 48.3% for transgender men) and anxiety (40.4% for transgender women; 47.5% for transgender men) within the current study far surpass the rates of those for the general population.

I’m not sure how else I’m suppose to interpret the summary of the study?


Having depressive symptoms isn’t having clinical depression.

It might be the case for some of them, of course, but probably not all of them.


Well the 6.7% or 6.9% of American with depression is also defined as having depressive symptoms so pretty much and Apples to Apples comparison.



The 6.7% that Strollen cites, for instance, is not measuring the same thing. That is a measurement of how many people had a major depressive episode in 2012, according to the WHO.

When you look at studies that are actually using the same comparison, you see that transgender people have a consistently higher rate of depression and anxiety, but even this is somewhat moot, as we see similar increases when comparing women to men.

Being a woman is not caused by being depressed, no more than being transgender is.

Being transgender in today’s society causes depression and anxiety, because certain people treat you like shit as a result. And really, this is obvious to everyone.


Well, it’s obvious, so that settles that.

Definitely. The seemingly poor outcomes for many reassignment surgeries, and the lack of much data on long-term outcomes, are very worrying. If there’s underlying mental illness, as there often is, the surgery doesn’t seem to be doing much.

Is he in the process of getting gender reassignment surgery, or consulted doctors on that? If so, what have they said?


That’s not how it works. You’re comparing symptoms to conditions.

You’ve probably been sad or depressed at some point in the last 6 years, do you now have clinical depression? No.


You just reaffirmed a statement, after i explained why it was wrong.

And this is after you replied to and quoted a section of that same post that was after the explanation.

Did you not read that part of the post, or are you pretending that it doesn’t exist?


No, not at all.
That number is the percentage of people who have had a MAJOR DEPRESSIVE EPISODE, that year.

That is a tiny subset of the number of people who exhibited some depressive symptoms.

If you were to measure the number of Americans who exhibited any depressive symptoms, it would be far higher than 6.7%.


I think that study, with its rather small sample size, actually significantly underestimated the problem of depression in trans communities:


Again, moot point, because the depression and anxiety is caused by society’s treatment of them.

Being depressed doesn’t make you transgender.

Obviously. Right? That’s obvious, isn’t it?


No evidence for this. The hormonal issues that cause transgender manifestations might also have something to do with depression and anxiety.


And… Incorrect.

We have seen the exact same sorts of increases in depression, anxiety, and suicide rate among all kinds of oppressed groups. Gay men, for instance, had a suicide rate that was 300% of their straight counterparts.

Further, there was a statistically significant drop in that suicide rate in recent years, coinciding with the legalization of same sex marriage.

So you had significantly higher suicide rates among gay teens compared to straight ones, and then you saw that rate decline as society started to become more accepting of them.

And really, this is just common sense. When you have people attacking you for who you are, that creates anxiety and depression. This is obvious.