SlyFrog
3381
I don’t like the 3 levels in E so early, particularly when I’m jungling. I’d rather have the extra attack speed in jungle by alternating Q-W in the beginning than having E (which if I recall correctly, is worthless in jungle other than the off chance you pop some dude trying to sneak around below 50% on your radar).
May just be that I’m not trying to gank often enough in the early levels while jungling, I don’t know.
Enemies see the icon from E over their head, so if you’re trying to gank low health enemies in a lane it will give away that you’re near. Just something to keep in mind.
Ability Power doesn’t actually help your Q (except on minions) as it either does Flat damage OR % health damage, depending on which does more. Only the flat damage scales from AP but you will almost always be doing the % health number to champions.
As for the skill order, W gives you 40% for a one point investment and only 10% per point after that. Whereas E doubles it’s effective range between ranks 1 and 3. Therefore it is far more valuable to get to rank 3 E asap and then go back to maxing out W. It used to be people maxed out E completely before going back to W, because of the poor return on investment past a single rank, but then this skill order became more popular as people started to come around to the idea that you don’t always have to max out a skill to make it useful.
With a longsword and health pot, if you’re getting low before you finish the jungle, you’re probably off on timing for your Q, you aren’t getting a leash on blue, or your runes/masteries are a bit off. Feel free to look at my attack speed jungle page and 16/0/14 jungle page, which detail what I think is a damn optimized speedy ww/noct/pirate setup.
SlyFrog
3385
Yeah, but I think that’s a bit apples to oranges. I’m not sure how valuable it is for me to double the range at which I sense 50% damaged enemies in the laning/jungling stage. I think 20% attack speed increase to the whole team is more valuable to me than an increased range of spotting sub-50% enemies.
I get that there is a movement speed bump, but the additional two levels isn’t that substantial. And of course the whole skill only has value if there is someone nearby who is heavily damaged, which is often not the case in jungle.
SlyFrog
3386
Yeah, I don’t rely on a leash on blue. I don’t start at blue unless I have a leash, and so I generally start without the long sword so as not to be reliant.
If I played more organized and less solo queue, I could see changing that around though and going with the long sword like you said.
maxle
3387
A 10% movement speed bonus is huge when you’re ganking, given that you’ve no gap closer other than your ult. If you’re not ganking, why are you jungling?
SlyFrog
3389
A 20% attack speed bonus for you and the other teammate or two in the lane is also important to me when ganking. It clears jungle faster, which the increased Blood Sense rank does nothing for. It also is helpful for hammering a tower, etc., unlike the 10% movement speed. Moreover, again, even that 10% movement speed is only in play if someone is already damaged below 50%, in which case in order to get it, you alert him that you are there when you turn on the skill. 20% increased attack speed is there no matter what when you want it (and on a shorter cooldown because you put more ranks into it). Finally, if he’s well enough below 50% to gank where the movement speed actually is active, I’m often enough just killing him with the Infinite Duress jump in plus Hungering Strike plus the attack speed bonus that is also helping the lane teammates who are in on the gank.
I really don’t think it’s a no brainer decision like you’re making it out to be.
If you aren’t starting Blue then you definitely shouldn’t be starting with Cloth armor. Longsword, or at the very least Boots should be your first pickup. You should start at mini golems with W.
If you are starting Blue, you should still get a Longsword or Boots over armor although if you don’t have the right runes then I can kinda understand. You should still get a leash in solo queue, it’s not like it costs anyone anything to do (even an auto attack helps you a ton).
With regards to E, it really is integral to you. It is what allows you to clean up in fights and ensure no-one gets away from you while ganking. Like I said, if there was a choice between “I need to max out E” or “I need to max out W” then you should be picking E 100% of the time. However this skill order was invented in order to get the best of both worlds, as you will have max W by lvl 15 along with the huge E increase which is right about the time you will be seriously pushing/baron fighting. In addition you should have substantial AS increases from Runes and as you already mentioned, one of your first items is an AS item. You don’t need the little bit extra from W at low levels, it’s not as useful as you think.
SlyFrog
3391
How so? I start small golems, then go wraiths, the wolves, then blue. At that point, I have enough (sometimes with a second wraiths) to get madred’s on the first trip back (obviously with the cloth prebuilt in).
I’m not tracking your advice - I should go back early for longsword? Starting with longsword (as I mentioned) leaves me with less of a health cushion than I like.
Edit: I see you changed your post. Yeah, I can definitely ask for a leash. Though you might be amazed that some people at my level seem to have difficulty with that concept. :)
If you start at the small golems you should be easily able to clear the whole jungle (skipping red) with a Long sword and a pot, using the pot at Wraiths. Like Jim already mentioned, you are probably messing up Q timings a little bit (something we discovered to have a pretty decent effect) or your runes/masteries are woefully inadequate ;)
Longsword also allows you to get Madrads faster (as soon as you finish your first clear), as you don’t waste money on unnecessary Health pots.
Hugin
3393
Man, the rifle lady is just so good. (cue people telling me all the ways Rifle lady is bad).
I just did a newbie match. 14 kills, 6 assists, 1 death, 5 buildings destroyed.
Nope, Caitlyn is awesome, Cupcakes ftw! :)
Cupcakes?
She seems to be the best AD carry right now. I see her a lot.
Is Sly 30 and fully runed? Might explain his situation.
Her traps have cupcakes in them as bait, which has lead to them being known as Cupcakes rather then traps :)
maxle
3397
Yes, cupcakes. Look at her traps.
Hugin
3398
So what does “Carry” mean? And “Jungling?”
Carry = someone who becomes super strong late-game. Generally they’re weak early-game and need to farm a lot. An AD carry puts out damage primarily through auto-attacking. Caitlyn is one of these, and she has probably the strongest early game out of all the AD carries (except perhaps Vayne).
Jungling = you kill jungle creeps and gank lanes instead of hanging about in a lane.
This is why LOL > (HON,DOTA)
