League of Legends: Official Thread

[SlyFrog]

A new gimmick is born: Lee Sin dominion games where the only things I say in allchat are quotes from Zatoichi: The Blind Swordsman.

Many of them are remarkably appropriate. “What’s the matter? Aren’t you going to draw?” after kills. “I’ll just watch for now.” after dying. “No one has a worse reputation around here than you guys.” for general taunting. Lots of other options too.

Nothing more satisfying than Kicking someone off a point they control into the loving arms of Poppy’s wombo combo.

I like this. You could do this in a kind of Street Fighter fashion, where after a kill or after the match is over, you have your vaguely nonsensical Japanlish quote.

[McKnight]

Yeah. It is. I’m not talking about from last year. I’m talking about a change literally seen in the last few weeks/month. I don’t think Morgana has been buffed several times in that time frame.

But feel free to angry out on the concept that people get things wrong, and deride champs as trash only to later discover they are actually good. (Of course, the definition of “trash” is a wholly separate issue. There is a subset of people for whom anything other than their made-up top pick for a category is “trash,” while others just speak in terms of something being suboptimal.)

Let me reiterate, as I obviously wasn’t clear before. Morgana has had several quality of life buffs over the past few months, culminating in a buff to her Ultimate which reduces the time taken to stun from 4 seconds to 3 seconds. That was the huge final change that made people start sitting up and taking notice of the champion again, hence you suddenly seeing her banned/picked again (just like early last year, before her nerfs). It’s not a random occurrence.

In addition to this, Morgana has always been an amazing champion and well recieved on the competitive scene thanks to Black Shield. She was also unable to be played on the tournament client for quite a few of the tournaments, and the top teams knew this and therefore never practiced with her. So people watching streams will naturally assume she was awful after her nerfs (as opposed to just average).

There is no “top” pick, especially the way the game is now. There are still bad picks however, take from that what you will.

MrCoffee: Alistar has never not been a strong champion. I don’t know what you are talking about. Irelia was an even stupider example, unless you don’t remember Irelia on release?

However, you also need to realize that metagame shifts effect which champions are picked up. Roaming (which came about with the evolution of jungling) was when people first started picking/banned Ali because he was so good at that aspect of the game, as this was the first time people had a real plan behind having an underlevelled support champion.

Then there’s also balance outside of the champion in question. Case in point: Ezreal. Why is he seen a lot now, while months ago people were even laughing at Chuaster and Candy Panda for playing him? Did people suddenly realize everyone was wrong and they were right? No, it was because the prime candidate for a poke/absolute damage AD carry, Corki, was heavily nerfed over several patches making Ezreal a far more attractive choice.

Nothing is random.

[McKnight]

You mean in the UI or is this a file? If I try in the UI it won’t let me map using SHIFT.

Really? Weird, works for me. Are you binding the keys in game?

-edit- Ah, Pogo probably solved your problem. Didn’t think about that.

[Pogo]

Morgana’s ult went from 4s to 3s. Before that was the simple Black Shield buff and an animation change which made her last hitting feel more solid.

Oh, really now?

Name one.

Udyr
Lee Sin

Udyr forgotten for a long time until people started exploiting Wriggles for top lane. SaintVicious called him useless about two months before he started to be used widely again.

Lee Sin was thought to be trash for a while after his debut.

Quitch: The problem is that shift+click is keybinded as attack+move or some shit like that. You have to CLEAR that keybinding before shift+whatever starts to work properly.

[Therlun]

I don’t know what you are talking about. Irelia was an even stupider example, unless you don’t remember Irelia on release?

Irelia was considered a very weak champion until people discovered tanky DPS (SHE started it, that bitch).

[Pogo]

Actually she was played like a mediocre assassin, and then HotShotGG publicized the Tri-Force/Spirit Visage build.

[McKnight]

Udyr
Lee Sin

Udyr forgotten for a long time until people started exploiting Wriggles for top lane. SaintVicious called him useless about two months before he started to be used widely again.

Lee Sin was thought to be trash for a while after his debut.

Udyr got a remake to his Tiger stance, and also Wriggles was bugged with turtle. Combination of both made him stronger then he should have been.

Lee Sin got hotfixed, he was awful on release.

Therlun, Irelia got buffs after she was released. On release she was pretty awful.

[Pogo]

I love that trick you do where you’ll say anything to mold the argument to make it look like the matter-of-fact statement you said before wasn’t complete fucking horse shit. I don’t think anyone in this thread actually falls for it anymore, dude. Remember that time I tried to argue that Lux’s ult fit the definition of a support ability because the damage it did created a zone of control? Yeah, I stopped acting like that months ago, you should think about doing the same.

Udyr’s significant buff was back in fucking January (mana cost reduction on stances), when people STILL DIDN’T PLAY HIM.

Lee sin was “awful” until people realized the power of his jungle, because before that he had no place in a lane.

Get real dude.

[McKnight]

I love that trick you do where you’ll say anything to mold the argument to make it look like the matter-of-fact statement you said before wasn’t complete fucking horse shit. I don’t think anyone in this thread actually falls for it anymore, dude.

I have no idea what you are talking about?

My argument was that people didn’t suddenly start playing these champions “en masse” randomly, there was substantial reasons behind them suddenly picking them up.

Udyr’s tiger got re-made Pogo, the mana buff was just icing on the cake (along with the unfortunate Wriggles bug). Lee Sin was being jungled even without the hotfix that made him good. It was quite clear that he belonged there before he was even released.

[Quitch]

Quitch: The problem is that shift+click is keybinded as attack+move or some shit like that. You have to CLEAR that keybinding before shift+whatever starts to work properly.

Great, thanks! Maybe I’ll be able to land a few more stuns now while still juking.

[Pogo]

That’s not an argument. That’s an instant win for yourself to think that the opposite of “there’s a reason people play champions” is necessarily “LOL NOTHING IS RANDOM EN MASSE.”

People DO shift to other champions not because of any patches or buffs, but because they see what someone is doing with a new item build, or because it fits the meta or whatever. Those aren’t substantial reasons, they’re meta reasons. They’re bullshit reasons. And “random en masse” is exactly what happened to Morgana even though she’s not overpowered at all and she has plenty of lane counters. Anyone who played Morgana before knows that the buffs didn’t alter anything about how useful she was. She still has to build Zhonyas and farm like a beast, and she can still get her ass torn apart.

And it was not clear he belonged there with some of the other tanky DPS junglers. Initially he was thought to be an AD assassin.

[_Poe]

On a lighter note, the CLG vs Sypher match has been pretty great so far, well worth watching when it reruns later. Nasus just melted faces repeatedly.

[Pogo]

Also, McKnight’s birthday was yesterday. He’s 21 now.

Happy birthday dude.

The real reason you make me so mad, is because you suppress my heart. And sometimes my balls.

[MrCoffee]

Alistar has never not been a strong champion. I don’t know what you are talking about.

Exactly.

But noone ever played him and you got mocked if you ever used him because he was a “bad champ” until the “pros” realized he was awesome.

Irelia was exactly the same, released as a crap champ, buffed, but noone payed attention to her until hotshot got owned by one and started crying in the general LoL forums about it.

Then he started playing her.

[Quitch]

Why oh why are the North American and West Europe forums separate? I just can’t fathom it. Searches constantly take me over to the NA forums, but you can’t post there because your EUW account isn’t valid, so you need yet another account, and it’s yet another forum to browse.

It just seems a bit of an unnecessary pain in the ass.

[Pogo]

Trust me, you don’t want to post on any of those forums.

[Lazy_Shiftless_Basta]

Also, McKnight’s birthday was yesterday. He’s 21 now.

Wow, really? That makes him even younger than Demon G Sides who I previously always thought of as the little kid of the forums. That actually explains a lot.

[McKnight]

Exactly.

But noone ever played him and you got mocked if you ever used him because he was a “bad champ” until the “pros” realized he was awesome.

Irelia was exactly the same, released as a crap champ, buffed, but noone payed attention to her until hotshot got owned by one and started crying in the general LoL forums about it.

Then he started playing her.

Well, Irelia had been picked up and played that way since the moment she got buffed by Wickd. That was what first popularized Tanky DPS top (SK were the first team to ever run that strategy). But I mean you are proving my point, not arguing the opposite. The champion was picked and played because she was buffed, not because people randomly decided she wasn’t shit anymore.

Also fuck you Lazy ;)

[MrCoffee]

Yes she was buffed, it was even a hotfix the same week or the next after she was released, but noone played her still, it took more than a month for her to get played widely.

[Pogo]

By popular request, and since it makes more sense: