You are confusing Skarner’s passive with Singed’s.
Therlun
5802
Heh… I would tend to disagree.
Anyone can tell you that crit is by far the most important stat for an AD carry even before you build an IE.
You’re just being incredibly dense at this point (to be fair, we all expect it).
idrisz
5804
I’m fortifying my borders. Disagreement with German tend to lead to invasion.
Maybe you were trying to kill things post patch rather than score points.
fire
5807
Creep kills should get you points and interrupting captures should get you more points. Both of which I was doing. :-/
Hugin
5808
Played two games of Dominion last night for some perverse reason, and my team won both games! Played one game as Caitlyn, the other as Tristana. Sucked at first but the XP and money gains are so high, eventually they became terrible killing machines. Caitlyn’s bear trap thingies were suprisingly useful.
Being delayed from getting to or getting away from point A to point B in Dominion, even for a couple seconds, really can make a difference over the course of the game. For example, dropping a couple into the two narrow slots directly beneath the Windmill conferred a serious “first shot” defensive advantage, because it made it harder for people to flood in from the center to gank. I also dropped one directly into a speed pad thing, just for the hell of it and got hilarious results.
Then I played Summoners Rift with Poppy and sucked and lost. Ah well.
Also, I will be interested to see what kind of defensive strategies people develop for Graves, because in every match I saw him in last night there was a Graves and he was stupid powerful. I assume his lack of range and lack of crowd control will be issues, but man, right now he’s kicking ass.
She does far more damage from auto attacks than you realize, if you are playing her right. Without a Doran’s blade I start with 60 damage on auto attacks (21 offense and some time ago Jim convinced me to go with flat AD quints). They hit plenty hard at 60 damage.
On the topic of things that do more damage than you expect while autoattacking, mathcraft says if someone has less than 160 armor Stark’s Fervor will give you personally more damage than a fully stacked Bloodthirster. The team aura is pure bonus.
Well, the last stat I heard was “a 3/4s bloodthirster” but the point is taken (for auto attacks idrisz, for auto attacks). I would expect LW to be better still in this equation as you approached 160 armor (well before really).
Sly, sustain is always important though it isn’t as important in a duo lane bottom as it is solo top. Life steal based sustain means you are attacking things, though. That can mean you are pushing more. Which doesn’t always make it ideal (since you’re getting a quick BT, the issue of hgetting enough damage to life steal isn’t a problem). A philostone is a sustain option as well (start with regrowth and 1 red pot of course). I don’t often get merc treds on Cait these days. Sometimes I switch over in late game (from zerkers), but that scenario hasn’t come up that often.
Also, to echo others, IE is a huge priority on Cait. IE will super charge your auto attacks, which you will be doing a lot of. Like Lazy, I sometimes get a vamp scepter along the way but don’t get BT for a long time. But ignore everything Lazy says about “rushing PD”, since nobody has suggested rushing PD or done that.
guppy
5810
peacedog has touched on an important piece of advice for new players: STOP BUYING FUCKING VAMPIRIC SCEPTERS ON YOUR FIRST TRIP BACK. I see this constantly and it makes no sense because it is 12% lifesteal and nothing else. You have no damage except base damage yet. Call it 50 damage. 12% of that is 6. So you will get 6 health back (does armor mitigate life steal? It’s less if so) per hit. That is worth approximately nothing unless you are hitting things a lot. Hitting things a lot, even if you can do it enough for the miniscule lifesteal to add up, pushes your lane. Pushing your lane is bad. If you need more sustain, buy some health pots or a regrowth pendant or something else that has no significant benefits or significant potential downsides.
In general, while lifesteal is clearly desirable, I think it is overvalued by many players. It is very good in situations where your sustained damage is pitted against someone else’s sustained damage. It is not so good when you are stunlocked by a burst nuker. It represents survivability only under very specific circumstances.
It seems unlike the vast majority of LoL players I can hit delayed skillshots and thus Xerath is quite fun. I think his damage output is a bit low though, and my god he sucks up mana. Is anyone playing him properly and can offer build advice?
Armor doesn’t mitigate lifesteal directly, but AFAIK lifesteal is based on the actual damage. So yes, it does in effect.
Also, if you look at my setup with a Doran’s start and then get a scepter, that’s 70 AD * .15 = 10 life per hit. On an unarmored target. Versus 520+ hp. That’s not terrible I guess, but that 400+ gold is better spent on other things at this point I think.
Wingrow
5813
Can anyone explain to me why AD Quints are best? Is it just a gold/stat ratio or is there some heuristic reason that they are preferred?
Best? Best is subjective. Jim was saying it was a frequently thing at higher level play if memory serves (note: this was like 2 months ago). Here is the benefit I see. For one, it’s more damage than Doran’s. So you get starting item flexibility without giving up the essential boost to your punchability (the therlunacy of that word is 17 btw). 47 starting AD blows. 3 AD quints gives you 60 right off the bat. Armor pen runes are nice and they’re great early game. But if you are getting LW they’re not as ideal are they? And let’s be honest: you are going to get LW most of the time. With LW the bulk of your pen comes from the 40%. AD quints thus scale better into late game though I can’t give the math (but I recall this being stated). I can’t remember why I ever played an AD carry without them at this point. They’re strong early game (if possibly less strong than Armor Pen) and they scale with LW.
I got some of the values wrong here because I glanced at the wrong row. Flat AD are +7 AD (well, 6.75). But you get 3 more AD from the one offensive mastery, for +10 (Same damage as Dorans).
guppy
5815
AD quints aren’t “best,” they are one option, which you might choose for early game dominance as they will help you both farm and harass (and maybe kill) more effectively early on.
peacedog, that is what I meant by armor mitigation. Thanks.
They are definitely the best in the slot for AD carries.
Most standard page right now for AD carries is ArmorPen Reds, Armor Yellows, Mana Regen Blues and AD Quints. If you only have one page it should be that, combined with 21/6/3 usually (although 21/9/0 and 21/0/9 are also viable depending on champion. 21/0/9 is definitely the weakest though, imo).
I never said her autoattacks don’t hurt, but her terrifying harass in laning is mostly based on Qing people from the other side of the screen where they can’t even retaliate. It’s also her skirmish and poking skill and later her farming skill. And if you don’t pick up a bunch of AD her ult just flat-out sucks.
The number I read was that at 160 armor Stark’s does exactly the deeps as a BT with 38 stacks. More armor gives the BT the edge and less gives it to SF. Nothing to do with Caitlyn or LW, really, since this is just about lifestealing someone’s face off.
Well the other builds on this page talked about making a Phantom Dancer as their first complete major item. And then one of them mentioned getting a second one on Caitlyn. Neither of those things are something I’d do for her.
_Poe
5818
I’m crap at this game. I use AD quints and reds not because of any of the very good reasons listed above, but because I can’t farm for shit without them. I just can’t get the last hits at all on base damage + dorans. But with them, I can comfortably make some money. If you’re shit like me, take some AD runes on an AD carry.
Watch some pro streams or recordings and study how they move around and behind creeps to get the last hit. They often get in close and keep moving until the last second, works for me too. And, NEVER stop moving.
Chequers, relying on the other player being bad at dodging skill shots (or not taking boots) is not a viable build strategy! I have seen a couple of Xeraths in recent games and he lost his lane each time. He is bad.
Auto attacks are significant component to her “terrifying harass”. The ease with which Piltdown is dodged frequently makes them a large component of it. Though if the enemy just backs the hell up that sometimes represents a win, though a smaller one.
The number I read was that at 160 armor Stark’s does exactly the deeps as a BT with 38 stacks. More armor gives the BT the edge and less gives it to SF. Nothing to do with Caitlyn or LW, really, since this is just about lifestealing someone’s face off.
Well, the entire context of the conversation is doing damage and killing stuff. I think it’s easy to see where LW fits into that discussion.
Well the other builds on this page talked about making a Phantom Dancer as their first complete major item. And then one of them mentioned getting a second one on Caitlyn. Neither of those things are something I’d do for her.
Starting at Wayne’s post, exactly 1 post talked about making PD the first major item (but even that is grabbing a BF sword before finishing PD; the argument there is that the 1600+ cost to finish PD from zeal gives more value than the 2100+ cost to finish IE from BF. I don’t think it does, but that’s a separate issue). That post was - with respect to the poster - more or less ignored because nobody else thinks PD should be the first finished item.
My post starts out talking about finishing a PD, however it becomes obvious part of the way in I’ve assumed IE is finished (The BT vs LW part) before I overtly state that I build IE first. Some of the posts have discussed the possibility of finishing PD as the second major item, yes. I’m now going to assume finishing PD second is a great idea since you think it sucks.
