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I’ll admit to not having tried very many junglers myself, but if Warwick is a bad one then who qualifies as a good one?

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I’ve said it before, I think he’s been pretty handily outclassed by other junglers. Lee Sin closes a gap better and does more damage, as well as maintaining useful damage output and tanking ability through to the end game. He’s more survivable and provides some utility to a team beyond keeping some target glued to the ground for a couple seconds.

The same goes for a Gangplank or Udyr. GP can involve himself in a fight from across the map. Udyr can stun multiple people in succession and farms better than other tanky junglers.

What does WW really bring to a table? He has little to no burst, his chasing ability requires someone to be at low health, and his ult loses potency quickly (and frequently puts him in a position to get his ass kicked, or can be countered by a silence or stun). His group buff is nice but doesn’t actually assist people in ganks nearly as much as a buff that lets allies position themselves better (GP speed buff).

It’s all very meh.

6063

Warwick is an easy jungler, which doesn’t necessarily translate to a good jungler.

He’s Babby’s First Jungler for a reason. His built-in lifesteal makes jungling with him absolutely trivially easy, and his ult allows for virtually effortless ganks. He’s really good to learn jungling on.

His ganks without his ult, be they pre-6 or while his ult is down, are mediocre at best. He doesn’t have the teamfight power of an Amumu or the terrifying damage of an Olaf. I’m not sure what his jungle clear time is like – I’m guessing not especially fast, but someone else will have to chime in on that one.

WW’s team steroid is nice for pushing in towers, I’ll give it that.

6064

If you said “safe”, or “can’t gank well before 6” or “doesn’t invade like a boss” (which are things other jungles like lee sin can have all of), then I’d believe you.

He’s not bad, but there are stronger jungles out there. He doesn’t rely on buffs to jungle, and his ult is quite good (and has a low cooldown) so he’s still decent. I still think he’s one of the easiest people to initiate a gank with (click R to suppress/gap close) and he can get DAMN tanky late game and take out a carry at the same time if he can get there.

I’m not sure what his jungle clear time is like – I’m guessing not especially fast

I clear at ~ 4:10 with a longsword and pot, with both buffs and at full health for the entire run. I’ve cleared faster with other jungles (olaf is speedy!), but not significantly. My nocturne run gets me to level 5 instead of 4 (small creeps->back->full jungle), but I’m cleared a full minute later. WW gets to madreds really fast, so his jungle gets faster on the next pass. If you get assist gold on a pre-6 gank, that + jungle clear will net you a madreds.

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Speaking on junglers, is Trundle decent these days? I was thinking of learning him or Nocturne.

I tried Nunu, but he depends too much on counterjungling and getting good ganks to do well, and then lategame is just Not Fun.

GP is good to gank with, but I don’t like his jungling very much. You need to be super precise and if the enemy jungler ever counterjungled I’d die horribly at a few points in my run. Plus he has no sustain, so you have to start tshirt + pots which makes clearing slow.

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trundle is my favorite AD jungler and the one I have historically the most success with. His ganks are not the best but still pretty good if you’re good with placing your pillar. I build kinda tanky DPS on him with wriggles, merc treads, aegis, sheen, and from there it varies a lot depending on whether i need more damage or survival. I have no idea how good my clear times are, but I feel I contribute a lot in most games I play him. Playing with an Anivia is hilarious for double wall action too.

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I need a new champ to try. I have found the most success with Tryndamere, but he’s so absurdly easy to play that this should come as no surprise. I’m only summoner level 9, and I have very little by way of experience out of the last few weeks. I’d like something significantly different from Tryn but still useful.

So far I’ve tried:

Poppy, whom I found to be a little difficult to get kills with despite seeing her steamroll teams a few times. I could never quite get my damage up as high as I wanted it to be, or the timing of when I should throw my E-Q combo down. Either way I won with her a good amount, so at least something was going right.

Nocturne was pretty fun, but I had a hard time closing the kills I set up. I think this had more to do with teamplay than anything else, since I couldn’t get anyone to catch on when my ult was going to fire or when they should attack with me.

Malzahar had a lot of skill required to hit with his abilities, and I never got him fully itemized, but he seemed like a good style fit.

Taric was a real switch, keeping a top-laning Tryn healed and supported. Another good style fit, though I’d maybe like something with more healing. I really miss Sedna from Demigod, she could heal like crazy and had a good pounce skill that could get you a decent number of kills. Is Nidalee kind of equivalent?

I couldn’t figure Kassadin out. I played about four games with him and only won once. I typically play new champs with a mobafire reference guide handy and a cautious playstyle, but even after watching youtube videos of people playing as Kass I couldn’t turn him into the killing machine I’ve seen a few times. His ultimate was particularly annoying to try and figure out, and teammates gave me conflicting information on how to use it well. (use it only to move away, use it to lead in, etc)

I very much liked Caitlyn’s traps and her ultimate. I don’t think my positioning or last hitting skills are up to par to make best use of her, but I did okay. I had pretty similar experiences with Ashe, though Ashe seemed to get me more kills.

Any suggestions from the more experienced LOLers?

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Sounds like two problems:

Poppy and Kassadin need farm, and it takes experience to know when you will win a fight. At some point as an assassin (they are both assassins) you realize that with farm you do a scary amount of damage to enemies, and when you do those enemies will start to flee from you (even if they can technically beat you in a fight because your cooldowns are no longer available for 5-10 seconds, but they don’t know this because it’s level 9 players). This means that your prime time to attack is when the enemy is a 50% health or lower, when one complete combo will take them down and an Ignite or a couple auto attacks will finish them off.

Kassadin’s silence gives him the ability to come in, do a lot of damage, and then run away as the enemy does nothing (they’re silenced). The strength of his assassin playstyle is that he takes a squishy down to half health or lower before a teamfight begins. This means wards and predicting enemy movements. His ult is a travel ability at the same time as being part of his burst salvo… knowing when a situation is bad to flash into takes practice.

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Poppy and Kassadin are both very hard to play well, although they’re devastating in the right hands. Kass is also made of paper and requires exceptionally good judgment. As Pogo says, they both need farm, and Poppy is possibly the worst farmer in the game.

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I only played 2 dom games last night but that new dragon lady seemed unstoppable. If people are this good with her on the first day of release, hmm. I briefly looked at her skills, she’s got tons of damage, mobility, aoe, range. I guess she’s only lacking CC?

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People have been really hit or miss with her in the normal games I’ve played.

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I only managed to play her once last night… and we had no jungler so I said “sure, I’ll do it”. I barely managed to survive through the wraith camp after help starting at red, but after that I was waiting on jungle respawns.

I tried ganking a few times, but I had nothing. I tried rageblade on her, but it is too hard to carry stacks from one fight to the next. I’m not sure how I felt about her power, as the enemy Shen and Lee Sin got rolling, so we were facing shields and taunts everywhere.

~C~

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You started at red? Very uncommon except maybe for Shaco.

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Lately I have been jungling Fiddlesticks. For some reason, I really enjoy being able to start at small golems, clear without needing a leash, and being able to finish off by doing dragon (admittedly, against other low ELO players without map awareness) at level 5.

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Let’s talk Poppy for a moment.

I’ve long advocated AD Poppy, on the basis that the reduced burst damage is outweighed by the increased ability to not be worthless while waiting for skills to cool down. (Doing the math indicates that her damage output as AD if you can give it a few seconds, vs. instantaneous AP DFG-dash-smash, comes out ahead with comparable gold investment.) On Dominion, though, it seems to me that there’s great merit in being able to blow someone up nearly instantly, particularly since Dominion tends to feature smaller-scale fights than Summoner’s Rift.

Thoughts welcome, on both the original thesis and the Dominion corollary.

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I’ll have to try that, normally I take an amplifying tome and a pot and start him at wraiths, smite the blue, drain one, AA one, drain one, aa/drain big wolf, pot, take blue, then back through the jungle to clear. My route gets messed up though if anything goes wrong in the first three camps, so another route to try is appealing.

6077

I’m actually of the opposite opinion.
AD poppy in Dom is excellent at assaulting and defending towers and hard to beat in 1:1 fights. In SR its all about the burst, because you go for the super squishies anyway.
In Dom you have to fight more durable champions who also (if they are not baddies) built a good amount of defense.
Going an AD build also makes you do a good amount of hybrid damage(Q converts all damage to magic, even the sheen procs), which is an advantage in Dom (harder to itemize against, easier to itemize for).

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I only play Dom now since my playing time is limited and comes in too short of bursts to fit in an SR game.

I’ve been maining Poppy and she’s incredible in Dominion. Her farming skills are non-existent (no range, no AOE) but these don’t matter much in Dom.

I’ve been looking for another champion to pickup and master. I gave Malzahar a whirl last night and holy cow, he’s awesome. On bot he can push like no one’s business. He’s much better than Heimer, who I played last week, since his voidlings aren’t fixed like Heimer’s turrets. He’s got great range, damage, AOE.

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AP Poppy is hands down the better and more efficient way to play her. It’s also completely impracticable in SR because you will never be able to get the farm required, which is why the AD (Trinity Force and then diverge) path is much more commonly seen and hailed as the best, because you can actually farm and be effective for a much larger portion of the game.

In Dominions though, you remove the necessity to farm from the equation which means AP Poppy now becomes a far more attractive choice. You’ll still be useless in the beginning team-fight though, which is something to consider, but you will be far more useful to your team as everything you require a Poppy to do in Dom, an AP Poppy will do better.

Chequers don’t worry. Trundle is amazing and while he really shines in certain comps he’s good enough to pick up regardless of team composition, just as long as you realize he’s far closer to a tank then a bruiser. To the people asking about WW, it’s not so much that he’s a bad jungler but simply that he is grossly overshadowed by many other junglers to the point that there is very little point to pick him unless you have an extremely specific strategy or you are playing with 3 bans each side and all the other junglers have been banned out (which happens quite a bit).

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“you moron they cved don’t do dragon now”

Also, what the hell, since I’m linking chiffy videos: