League of Legends: Official Thread

Trinkets sound like temporary wards, and clairvoyance, and a mini-oracle. It’ll be very interesting to see how this works out, as I’m a big vision guy - I play both jungle and support, wards are critical for both counter jungling and taking objectives (which supports currently love, because objectives are most of your gold.)

Also, I’m looking forward to getting a godlike assist spree.

PS: is there a list of NA players around somewhere? I’m silver 1 in solo Q on EUW because I’m lazy (only played ~ 20 games all season), and I did a quick set of twisted treeline games to hit Plat.

If you die on an assist spree, will your Lane partner call you Goose?

I don’t think you’d be a goose. Maybe only the picture of one.

People who I know are still playing (some are native qt3, some wanderers, most both):

BanzaiExsulum
Forge
Skystride
Rittchard
Cortilian
Guishaou
Kalimac
Appaz
Scathing Vitriol
awkward stepdad
powerup7
EspressoJim
Slyvanian Frog

I know there are more, but this is a quick starting list. Wanderers usually hang out in TheWanderers chat room. Official qt3 room is, oddly enough, qt3.

Whooooosh

Well… I finally had a chance to try the game this week, and I’m not quite sure what to make of it. Certainly, I feel like the learning curve might be too steep for me to enjoy. But it’s VERY early days.

I’ve played a few games with and against bots only to get the hang of moving around, CSing and using my skills. So far, all my games but one have been with Miss Fortune, as I enjoy that play style. I also think it’s good to learn a champion and how to progress it and play it before moving on.

Then, yesterday, I take the plunge and start my first game with other players. 5 players vs AI. The people are nice. I get to play Miss Fortune bottom lane and it all goes swimmingly (as you’d expect against bots). Game ends and, for a first game with humans, I’m pleased with my CS score, even though I let a fully grown Cho’Gath bot kill me 2 or 3 times too many.

Life is good and I think the game is going to be enjoyable.

Today, I start my second ever game. But, this time, I don’t pay attention and end up joining a proper 5v5 game. People don’t speak in the chat room (I mentioned I’d like to play AD Carry bottom). They quickly pick their champions and I have no clue whether Miss Fortune is a valid choice or not still. I ask. No answer. So I pick her. The game starts and people rush top and bottom and I end up mid lane. I haven’t tried mid lane in my bot games. Haven’t really got a clue how my role changes there. But I start doing my thing.

Opposite me is Fiddlesticks. First time I meet it, it gets the better of me by being smarter than a bot and me (not hard :) ) and I realise that I’m playing against humans. Gasp.

And this is where the learning curve kicks in. When picking champions, without having the roster in my head, I have no clue what kind of game our team or the opposite team are playing. When I meet Fiddlesticks, I don’t know how it matches up to Miss Fortune. I find out it drains life by the second time it kills me. By which time I’m more than somewhat outclassed in my lane. Then a player goes AFK on our team. The other team starts doing its thing. I’m slow to react to pings on the map as my attention is often focused on Fiddlesticks (though I do notice eventually and always try to go and help as needed) or trying to CS. The other team starts racking up kills, fends off our counterattacks, gets our turrets and inhibitors, …I think the game ends before the 20 minute mark.

There is some mild cursing on our team and some better natured “don’t worry about it”. But the game is pretty good at making you feel you let the team down. And that you’re clueless.

The stats don’t make for near as fun reading.

The thing is, I could go back to a bot game and probably enjoy it. But it feels clear that, unless I can learn what a lot of champions though, recognise what they are during team picks and know what to pick myself, and get a clue of how to play not only in various lanes but also with different champions and against various champions, I’ll feel like a burden to the team.

It feels like you need to know a lot of things before you even play. And other players are there to have fun, not to teach you. They expect you to know.

At this point, I’m not sure whether to persevere and find less demanding and stressful occupations during my free time. Hmmm… :/

Wendelius

From your description of the game, not a single one of your teammates knew the basics of the game either. What you described is basically a level 1 game. The situation you described (asking for ADC, and then somehow getting stuck mid against Fiddlesticks) suggests your teammates were dysfunctional idiots. Which is fine, since you basically played a level 1 game with probably tons of new people and some guy smurfing from Gold to make his penis feel bigger.

But my point is, I’m pretty confident that no one else (from your description of the game) knew anything either. So you shouldn’t feel like these people were masters let down by your terrible play. They didn’t know anything.

He. Thanks for that, Slyfrog. It very well could be.

Interesting how I started by rolling my eyes when my son was talking about LoL. However, the more I read about it and after following some streams with him, the more I’d like to play it. There is a lot of interesting stuff going on in that game. It just feels like you are standing in front of the Great Wall of China when you start.

Wendelius

That part honestly is difficult. League of Legends has reached a point where it has somewhat harmed its ability to easily absorb new players (in my opinion) because it has reached a point of having so many characters with different skills that it is a bit of a barrier to entry to understand what most, let alone all, of them can do. So you will end up in situations as a new player where an opponent hits you with some skill and you’re wondering what in the hell happened and how you counter it (like you mentioned with encountering Fiddlestick’s life drain for the first time).

But part of the problem here is that you probably just have a higher expectation on yourself that most people. You (kindly) are worried about being the idiot and messing up other peoples’ games. 95% of the people who play League of Legends have personality types such that they don’t give the slightest shit about this - they learn by simply jumping in and getting smacked up by things, and not caring that they may be letting a team down.

The thing for you to remember is that you would be the abnormal one if you actually cared about letting your teammates down. Particularly in the early levels through say level 20ish, you are going to be playing with a bunch of people who are learning by experience just as you are (regardless of what they say in chat about how amazing they are), and you should not let your concerns prevent you from playing and learning as you go (obviously trying to work intelligently to pick things up as you go). No one else is letting themselves be held back from playing this fun game because of that, and neither should you. :)

Also recognize that there are different modes of play. I think people have some justification to be irritated if someone joins a ranked game and doesn’t care or doesn’t know what is going on. You don’t have that concern - by definition you can’t play ranked until you get to level 30 in any event. The games you are playing are by definition the less “serious” games (again, regardless of what jerks in chat may be typing). That doesn’t mean you should just completely fuck around or be an idiot, but it does mean you should have no qualms using it as a learning experience. No one is losing any status or end of season rewards because of you, for example. It’s all basically practice games when you’re not playing ranked.

SlyFrog,

I wanted to thank you again for your replies. I do probably take those things and my newbie mistakes too seriously. But your posts are helping me adjust my perspective, so to speak.

I have a question for you. Being the grand old age of nearly 43 and only playing occasionally, I thought I’d spare my aging brain by creating Item Sets in the client. So, yesterday, I used the mobafire guides and spent over an hour setting up nicely ordered item sets for the 3 Champions I play. No more will I be wondering whether I’m confusing Cho’Gath with Miss Fortune or Sona, I thought. ;)

More seriously, it seemed like a good idea to see everything in one place and not waste time clicking through the store.

I logged on today (on the same PC) to find the LoL Client tell me: “You don’t have any Item Sets yet. Click the Create button above to get started!”. Whaaaaat? :(

I hit Save after each Set I created. So, at most, I thought I should have lost only one. But nope. Nothing there.

Ever hit that problem? Is this a known issue or was I unaware of some well known workaround to get the Set to “take”? Can I recover those sets I spent so much time creating last night?

Not that I don’t enjoy spending forever typing item names and dragging them into sets. But it doesn’t seem the most productive use of my time…

Wendelius

I do know that item sets have been buggy or odd for some people, though I have not had that issue. I have only created two or three, however, and do not really use them too much. Here is why:

Once you get playing a bit, you realize that there are a huge number of items, but the actual number of optimal or intelligent items is much smaller. This is for two reasons.

First, once you get into the strategy of the game, you discover that many items are simply not as good as others. In League of Legends, this is often expressed in terms of gold efficiency. In simplest terms, if item A gets you +10 foozles for 100 gold per foozle, while item B gets you +20 foozles for 50 gold per foozle, the savvy players of the game will recognize this and always lean toward item B. This information then eventually percolates down to the unsavvy players like me, who slavishly copy those choices. :)

There are a lot of items like this, where except in rare cases (which are typically rare enough that casual players like you and me don’t need to worry about them), the item is outclassed by a better item that plays a similar role and thus you don’t need to remember the outclassed item or consider it as a choice.

So through this mechanism, the set of items you need to worry about shrinks.

Second, you start to associate item “sets” with three or four overall types of characters and roles. Though a bit clumsy, I would broadly define these into (i) characters that are offensive Attack Damage (you will constantly see this shortened to “AD”) characters, (ii) characters that are offensive Ability Power (you will constantly see this shortened to “AP”) characters, (iii) characters that are bruiser/tanky type defensive characters (these are also technically AD or AP, but generally focus more on defensive items as opposed to offensive items); and (iv) characters who are “support” types of characters.

With characters who are offensive AD type characters (the classic example of this is the ADC, or “marksman” as League is trying to get it renamed, that plays in the bottom lane along side a “support” character), you tend to buy from a small subset of items that have any or all of the following: bonuses to your AD, bonus chance to critical hit, bonuses to attack speed, and reduction to an opponent’s armor (because their armor blocks your Attack Damage). So when you play these characters for awhile, you get used to the familiar items you buy that meet these task. For example, the classic ADC/Marksman build typically involves buying some or most of the following in some order: a Bloodthirster, Blade of the Ruined King, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Static Shiv, Berserker’s Greaves (boots that increase your attack speed), Last Whisper, Black Cleaver. All of these do one of the four main things mentioned above for offensively oriented AD characters (increase AD, increase attack speed, increase your chance to critically hit, or reduce opponents’ armor), and have other side effects dependent on the items (the Berserker’s Greaves, for example, increase your movement speed as well as your attack speed).

With characters who are offensive AP type characters (AP mage types like Annie or Cassiopeia ), you tend to buy from a small subset of items that increase your AP, reduce your cooldowns on your spells, and reduce your opponent’s magic resistance (because much like armor prevents damage from AD attacks and AD based skills, magic resistance prevents damage from AP based skills). Certain AP type characters are often very mana hungry, and may also buy an item or two that increase their mana pool or mana regeneration rate. Like with offensive AD characters, with offensive AP characters, again, while there is a lot of choice it generally boils down to a number of “usual suspects” that most characters buy. These are things like Rabodan’s Deathcap, Liandry’s Torment, Zhonya’s Hourglass, Deathfire Grasp, Abyssal Scepter, and Rylai’s Crystal Scepter. Certain items provide AP and increased mana (overall pool or regeneration rate) like Athene’s Chalice, for those who have greater mana needs.

Defensive/Tanky characters build primarily armor, magic resistance, and health items, to soak up damage and be more survivable. Whether you lean toward armor or magic resist depends primarily on two things: (i) the mix of the other team (if they have more AD characters who do damage you lean to more armor, if they have more AP characters who do damage you lean to magic resist); and (ii) in game how the opponents are doing - if one guy on the other team is getting really fed and strong with a lot of kills against your team, you tend to buy armor/magic resist to counter whatever he is (armor if he is an AD character, magic resist if he is an AP character). So items like this would include Sunfire Cape, Spirit Visage, Randuin’s Omen, Frozen Heart, and Warmog’s Armor.

Supports are a little strange. They tend to start by buying items that generate gold (primarily Philosopher’s Stone and Kage’s Pick). That is because they do not last hit minions or tend to get many kills themselves, so they don’t generate a lot of gold through ordinary in-game activities. Supports also have the primary role of buying and placing wards for map vision, so they then also end up usually buying a Sightstone (which they upgrade to a Ruby Sightstone), which allows you to place “free” wards. After that, they continue buying additional wards, Oracles potions to see and kill the enemy’s wards, and then with any money left over, a few items just like the above mentioned characters do (e.g. Leona, who is a tanky support, would probably buy some armor or magic resist, whereas an AP support like Lux might buy an AP item or two).

As a “subset,” there is also the Jungle character. They primarily differ in that they usually start with a jungle item (like Spirit of the Ancient Golem) to help them clear the jungle camps faster and more safely, but from there generally build per the above character types, depending on what they are (Jarvan, for example, is an AD type, and would build AD items and armor and magic resist, Maokai is an AP type (tanky), and would build AP items and armor and magic resist).

So once you play for a little bit, you quickly pick up the general “good” items for the type of character you are playing. For example, if I were playing just about any ADC/marksman character as a beginner, I wouldn’t feel very bad about picking up a Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, Bersker’s Greaves Infinity Edge, Last Whisper, and then maybe at the end some type of defensive item to give myself more survivability. Could I optimize that for a particular character for various in-depth reasons (e.g. Vayne is an ADC who because of her high base damage probably does better with more additional attack speed early, so I might buy a Blade of the Ruined King instead of the Bloodthirster)? Sure. But that’s really fine tuning the last 10%; as a casual/beginner, you are fine so long as you are picking from the right overall category and from those common items that are most gold efficient.

As a final note (and maybe this should have come earlier), the items I mentioned above are all “end stage” items. There are a bunch of sub-items (e.g. Blasting Wand) that go into making them. But if you remember the end stage items it is a lot easier, because you can shoot for them and the game tells you (when you click on the end stage items) the components you need to get to the end stage item. So you don’t have decide between and remember 20 individual items that go into the final “end stage” items you want; just figure out what end stage item you want and buy the components based on that.

So let’s say I’m playing Miss Fortune (one of the aforementioned ADC/marksman). I decide I’m going to get that Bloodthirster as my first item. Only it costs a ton of gold (3200g), and when I go back to base for the first time, I only have 1000g. The game makes it easy on me, because I can still just click on Bloodthirster, and it will tell me that it needs a B.F. Sword (1550 gold), and a Vampiric Scepter (800 gold). The Vampiric Scepter itself will be shown as being made up of a Long Sword (400 gold) plus playing another 400 gold to upgrade to the Vampiric Scepter.

So I only have 1000 gold, but knowing that I want my first “end stage” item to be the Bloodthirster, I simply click on Bloodthirster. I see that I can’t afford the B.F. Sword portion of it yet (because it costs 1500 gold). I can afford the Vampiric Scepter portion, so I buy that. Then, the next time I go back, I can see whether I can afford either the entire rest of the Blood Thirster, or maybe I can only afford the B.F. Sword. Or maybe I can’t afford either, so I can also then decide to start buying components toward another end stage item, and I’ll finish up the Bloodthirster later. To do that, I only really have to know about the Bloodthirster - I do not have to individually remember and think about the Vampiric Scepter, Long Sword, and B.F. Sword, because the Bloodthirster will remind me those are the components when I click on the Bloodthirster.

By having that overall, high level understanding of how the characters work, it really boils down your choices and makes it a lot easier to just have a rough mental pattern of what to buy for each of the 3-4 character types without having to worry about lists of specific items for each specific character.

My son and I play on multiple computers in our house, and we have noticed that item sets do disappear if we interfere with each others machines. They certainly seem to be stored locally on each machine and user account (any item sets we set up on one computer will not be visible when we play on the other). That is a little bit poor.

I’m not technologically sophisticated enough to understand the exact reasoning, but everything I’ve read suggests that the League of Legends client is pretty terrible technologically, and is basically the equivalent of a rusty old car held together with Bondo and baling twine. They made the game on a budget, it became a huge hit, and so the programming level really doesn’t match up to the scale of the game today, because a lot of the programming was done as a partial labor of love out of expediency rather than the “right” way.

You see this in other little areas of the game apparently - a lot of the game effects (such as Jarvan’s ultimate) are apparently actually formed from “minions,” so skills that interact with minions can occasionally have strange effects on things. This was why they had to take Syndra down for awhile as I understand it, as her skill that throws things around could be used to pick up things that shouldn’t be thrown around (because they all shared the same base) and people were doing things like tossing around towers, etc. :)

I don’t play ranked anymore, and haven’t for almost a year, it feels like. I still play ARAM so feel free to steam me or invite me in game for ARAMs. Normal/Ranked I probably wouldn’t play… I got burnt out and I really didn’t like the league system.

For some odd reason (Someone ELIA5?) I cannot log in to the client without starting up Internet Explorer first. What the hell? That seems to be the recommended fix when googling around the internet. Sounds like shoddy programming to me.

Since the season was ending tonight, I decided to blow through my last 8 provisional games today. Highlights include an 0-7 Vlad at 10 minutes, an Udyr who fed 5 kills, blamed mid, and then avoided every team fight, and only one close match that was fought to the bitter end. I ended up 2-6 and can say that I should take blame for one of those losses (though everyone did poorly that game). On the plus side I only ran into one really unpleasant person (Udyr). Still, I think this may be what finally gets me to quit playing.

You should definitely quit playing. Ranked games. That shit is cancer. Get some people on your friend’s list (I’m Pastrami Reuben, check this thread and the other League thread on QT3 for other people to add) and play normals. I’m really psyched about Team Builder because even if we don’t have 5 friends we’ll be able to get 2 or 3 of us together and play what we want instead of queuing up only to have randoms get first pick and take our preferred roles.

Winning is great but really all I care about is getting to play the champs I want to play. There are so many great characters in League and that’s what keeps me coming back, I’ll never get good at all of them but I’ll keep trying. If everyone on the team is at least trying to play well and not trash talking their own team I don’t care if we win or lose.

Ranked games are far more fun when you duo. Having someone to share the experience with can help you keep your sanity, and if you feel any desire to express rage, you can do it to your duo queue partner, instead of the rest of the world. That said, I decided to do a bunch of ranked games, and banged my head against promos 4 times without making it through. A lot of the reason for failed games were blatant trolls on my team. One might expect that the number of trolls would always be distributed in my favor (4 chances my side, 5 the other side), but I just didn’t have the ability to carry the games where the trolls were stronger on my team, which is possibly due to playing support and jungle. When all your lanes lose hard, it’s difficult to keep the game from snowballing, as both rely on global gold a bit much in S3.

S4 changes will dramatically change both these roles for the better, and I’m looking forward to them!

I’m not sure I agree with that. I play ranked because I find there is less chance of finding someone there who is just fucking around being an idiot.

I don’t need every game to be completely serious business, but I also don’t need to waste 40 minutes of my life watching someone else learn that their Soraka jungle idea just really does not work out.

I find that while you still get idiots, trolls, etc. in ranked, the likelihood is still somewhat lessened (though way too high still) because most people still don’t want to lose rank by playing like idiots.

Of course, that does mean that many people think ranked is a little too much of a serious business, and you will get people ranting at you more often. You just get fewer people doing stupid shit because “It’s not ranked, who cares.”

So last night I streamed a Team Builder game. I just edited the video if you guys are curious: http://www.twitch.tv/jvmcmaster/c/3547405