5641

Well yes, but Kassadin can fit into pretty much any team comp and work against pretty much any line up. He’s just an overall solid champion and a very strong AP burst champ. The only thing that separates him from other casters is the lack of any kind of initiation (this combined with his short range spells) rather then anything else.

Over here he’s one of the most banworthy champs on the roster right now.

5642

I can only assume your actually trying to troll at this point.

5643

worst AP farmer, his bounce thingie barely does any damage if you go with mana stacking.

5644

No I sorta agree with idrisz. He’s incredibly weak in the laning phase right now. I don’t know of any champs that actually require being babysat other than Ryze. He’s nice and strong in the late game with a decent midgame, but I personally think his E (bouncy ball) needs to be buffed a bit to at least serve a little function as harass/farm. I see that thing bounce 2-3 times off of the same creep at 20% health and not kill it!

Once he gets rolling with a frozen heart though, he’s an excellent 1v1 champ. He’s just going to have a very tough time laning against people who are competent harassment.

5645

She still scales incredibly well, the nerf only effects her laning presence rather then her effectiveness in a teamfight (where her Ulti will be running continuously regardless). And even with the nerf she is still ridiculously strong in lane thanks to her passive.

Vlad is picked up a lot. I can only imagine the reason he’s not picked up in tournaments (of which, incredibly few have been broadcast) is because he relies on snowballing to be effective late game. He’s still up there with Nidalee as the strongest mid game character available and he does what he does incredibly well, partly due to the gold multiplier his passive serves as and partly because he has a really nice set of skills. I’d love to hear someone argue that he’s not top tier, I mean not bannable anymore sure, but definitely still an incredibly solid pick in any line up and godlike with any other AoE champs.

5646

And why the fuck are you using your skills on creeps?

You don’t use his E to farm anyway, if you want to kill creeps you nuke with Q and W using your ulti if there is a huge wave stacked. Your E isn’t used for damage anymore, it’s used to reduce magic resistance and refresh Cooldown timers.

And Pogo, the new Ryze is one of the best laners I’ve seen in a while. Or at least I’ve been incredibly impressed by him. He can nuke every 2 seconds (which now has a decent range) and has a pretty reasonable root that also refreshes his nuke. Combined with the fact magic damage doesn’t Call for Help and you have an incredibly powerful harass. Strength of Spirit also gives you quite a decent amount of health regen to combat harassment.

5647

And why the fuck are you using your skills on creeps?

All caster use skills on creeps, there gets to the point where laning stops, but you still need to farm, chilling around in a lane during mid to late game waiting to last hit with your auto attack is fucking retarded.

Malzahar can just drop his dot and go his merry way while collecting gold and mana back.

Anivia can pretty much one shot a wave on a passby.

Vlad does his blood splatter shit, and entire waves dies in 3 cast.

Kassadin goes MLRLRLGLLG and there goes another wave.

lux/morg/karthus/swain all have “I cast this and wave dies” spells. Actually lux’s ult is on a such low cd, she can cast her ult and multiple wave dies…

Ryze have “hey let me Q this and Q this and Q this and Q this” (oh yeah, mcknight probably pull the “Hey guys, stop stealing my creeps, I need farm cause I’m the carrrry”).

Sorry but fuck that. Ryze sucks balls after change.

P.S.

getting player kill is awesome, but Creep farming is so important to carries, with mal I can easily get close to 150+ CS within 25 minutes mark that translate to 3000 golds on average of 20g per minion. you throw in some player kills, I believe last night with malzahar I had Arch Angel/mpen boot/death cap/Void staff at 25 minutes mark, because I roll early CS gold into item advantage that let me dominate any lanes.

Even if you are losing your lanes in early game, as long as you have a strong farming skill it’s very possible to recover in mid to late game.

5648

The only time I’ve seen Ryze actually succeed in a lane was when I was playing him against a maxle’s Irelia, and he didn’t really know what the fuck he was doing with Irelia at that point.

Every time it comes for Ryze to make an important laning maneuver, he’s out of fucking mana because he has had to counterharass enemy champs that know what the fuck they’re doing and pick on him repeatedly.

And idrisz is right about the creeps. Once a tower or two is down, nobody has time for last hitting. At level 12 my Cho is eating whole waves and then getting the fuck out of lane to assist teamfights. Ryze is sitting there waiting for E to recharge so he can cast it 3 more times, because RIOT decided to completely shove Ryze into a singular item build configuration that doesn’t reward Ability Power, yet his only farming skill is shit without it.

Now, I don’t think Ryze’s remake is complete crap, he’s a good 1v1 champ from mid to late game, and having a stun that isn’t a skillshot is always an asset in this game, but I can’t believe that you think he’s a powerful laning champ when I’ve babysat him numerous times now, and only succeeded with Cho (and he still god zoned and died!).

Bluemax plays him frequently and the times that he’s played him in our games, he didn’t win laning, and I have faith that Bluemax can lane him properly, so the weak link is Ryze.

5649

Anyways, it’s obvious that our experiences with Ryze in our games are pretty different, and I’m positing that it’s really based on the different skill levels of the players in the lanes.

5650

Idrisz 150 CS at 25mins is about average for a solo lane if you are ganking and moving about, when you consider you should be at least at 70 CS or so by 10mins.

I still maintain Ryze can wipe creep waves ridiculously fast using his combo/his ulti. He just requires a different mind set now. E is practically a non-existent spell that should only be used to lower MR and refresh your Q CD.

Pogo that’s strange, when I played him I don’t think I ever ran out of mana during the laning phase. Maybe a bit before I got my tear but certainly not afterwords.

5651

you were just crying about using skills on creep wave, now you said you going to use his ult on a creep wave?

his only combo now is root, bounce ball between your target and yourself and spam your Q. his burst is quite lacking, his only CC doesn’t prevent his target from attacking him.

5652

I have to side with idrisz and Pogo. Since the remake I’ve never seen a Ryze do anything but terribly in the laning phase. Right after the patch came out I remember a few Ryzes trying to solo top, and they universally got destroyed.

The best example was when Blue was playing him and went bottom lane with I forget who on our team, and they laned against an enemy Ryze and someone else. The reason I only remember Blue and the enemy Ryze being down there was that the other two people in that lane did whatever they wanted and both Ryzes died constantly. Blue picked up later and started doing the deeps and killing people after the laning phase, but the one common thing I’ve seen in every single Ryze is that they sucked laning.

5653

He’s not a burst champion anymore, he’s a sustained DPS champ. Crying about his AoE farming is the same as crying about Ashes. Like I said, he requires a completely different frame of mind right now then he did before. l0l was one of the best Ryze player’s I’ve ever seen and he couldn’t stand him after the change because of how differently he played. I, having never really played the old Ryze, loved him in the 3 or 4 games I played with him.

And yes, once you reach a sufficient point you can farm with your Ulti no problem. This is because Cooldowns for Ryze are non-existent. Hell, I’ve used my Ulti twice in one fight before. I would not however advise doing this on any other champion, or doing so with Ryze during laning phase when the last thing you want is your lane to push.

5654

no one cries about lack of aoe farming for Ashe, and because Ashe actually have a perfectly good aoe farming skill for a carry->volley, if she doesn’t then something is wrong with her too.

Sustain dps champion especially AP just sucks, look at your own list of top tier caster…

Top tier picks right now are: Anivia, Sion, Vlad, Zilean and Kassadin

Good choices but not godly: Malzahar, Lux, Karthus, Swain, Morg and possibly the new Ryze

pretty much all of them have some serious burst combo damage or have some major lockdown skills or skills that boost damage output of your team…Zilean unique in that aspect but he basically let you have a free res during every fight as well as make your entire team level 8% faster.

What does new ryze have? at least the old ryze have a combo where I ult/root/bounce/nuke and someone is probably dead.

the new ryze is basically, I Q every 2 seconds and do some damage to a single target. it’s a bad change. if you want to play sustain damage there are so many naturally tougher and higher damage heroes out there than the new ryze.

The new ryze is in between a sustain dps like trist and insane burst like akali. that’s a gap where filled with great tanky dps heroes like Irelia/Xin/Olaf.

5655

One called cognitive dissonance.

Sorry McKnight, I couldn’t resist that slowball.

5656

I haven’t played new Ryze a whole lot, and actually not much since then. I would say the number one mistake I was using is that I was still trying too much to play like old Ryze.

I think in one game I was playing I finally realized that, like McKnight said, you have to use E SOLELY as a debuff skill. Pretend it does no damage (and any it does do ends up as a bonus) it is only there to reduce MR. Now I was maxing it out last, but I still tried to farm with it too much, and its better to just use Q and W and last hitting.

I actually meant to write up some stuff on this but I got busy and then sick so I apologize. But the important thing to understand about Ryze is:

AP IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO FOCUS ON BUILDING.

You have two goals when building items on Ryze:

  1. Get to 40% CDR (runes also help)
  2. Get as much mana as you can.

The unfortunate part about this is that there is no Deathcap for Mana, no magic item that boosts your mana immediately by a shit load. So you’re gonna suck for a few levels. I think in my best games I didn’t feel useful until about level 7 or 8.

Now the positive thing about building mana is that there are some really fantastic accumulating mana items, and that they pretty much all enhance your ability to stay alive. Your core items on Ryze are now:

Frozen Heart
Rod of Ages
Banshee’s Veil
Ionian Boots

You know what sucked about old Ryze after he got nerfed into the ground? You’d blow your wad of spells and then be a slow, squishy, sitting duck who had to get closer than almost every other caster in the game.

Now? Now you have good range, your best items help keep you alive AND boost your damage AND make it so you can use your skills again.

When you’re playing Ryze you don’t have to save all your shit for the right moment, you just throw it out there at the first opening and then 3 seconds later do it again.

New Ryze DOES still have a Root Idrisz. Rune Prison isn’t “HOLY SHIT RUSH BANSHEES VEIL” awesome anymore but its still a reasonable form of CC. He also has a MR debuff and for a RANGED carry he has pretty damn good range. Also he has the benefit of his BEST items give him a lot more survivability than most other ranged DPS.

No one picked Trist in the NESL but Ryze got picked once and banned once, ;-)

5657

here is the spec you went for, I even toss in an AA just for even more mana

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,7,117,5&level=18

your Q at that point will do very low damage for how much mana you have stacked, around 600 pre-magic resist.

even though your bounce reduce MR, but it’s random and the most you can get on one person is 3 stacks, also stacking mana is all good, but void staff is pretty much a must in late game, it doesn’t add any mana.

You have plenty of armor, but you will be nuke down extremely easy in late game, before you can do your sustain dps. only in circumstance where everyone else is a bigger threat than you where you will do enough damage, most time you still be focus down as a squishy due to lack of MR in late game.

even compare to annie who has average AP ratio, Annie at that point will able to literally does half other team’s damage in first 2 seconds and cause an aoe stun.

5658

Go watch the Roku vid of him playing the new Ryze. His AP scales in a crazy way now with mana, even with just a couple of mana crystals you get some insane early damage boosts, on a skill that is highly spammable. We’re talking about +130+ damage within the first few minutes of the game. Hitting people for 200ish a pop, on a spell that you can easily get to a 2ish second cooldown is pretty good early game damage if you ask me. You can get much more damage out of Ryze now in the early laning phase than you could before the change.

/shrug. I think it’s entirely possible to build Ryze now and never touch an AP item, I’m guessing you could make some really interesting builds with him with items that give you mana and health/resists/debuffs etc.

5659

Well, I’m in love with Heimer again; even without the turret spam the rockets deal lots of damage and actually scale pretty good and the grenade saved me a million times in the last game against a tanky dps team.

5660

I laned against a Heimer as Trist yesterday who didn’t lay down a turret until level 7 or so. I was playing a bit poorly since we didn’t have a jungler and they did, but he was harassing pretty well with those rockets.