League of Legends

Pogo · 2011-03-02T15:18:40.000Z

I haven’t seen a Heimer in quite a while.

Copet, come back :(

bluemax · 2011-03-02T15:50:32.000Z

idrisz:

here is the spec you went for, I even toss in an AA just for even more mana

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Ryze/?items=29,76,7,117,5&level=18

your Q at that point will do very low damage for how much mana you have stacked, around 600 pre-magic resist.

even though your bounce reduce MR, but it’s random and the most you can get on one person is 3 stacks, also stacking mana is all good, but void staff is pretty much a must in late game, it doesn’t add any mana.

You have plenty of armor, but you will be nuke down extremely easy in late game, before you can do your sustain dps. only in circumstance where everyone else is a bigger threat than you where you will do enough damage, most time you still be focus down as a squishy due to lack of MR in late game.

even compare to annie who has average AP ratio, Annie at that point will able to literally does half other team’s damage in first 2 seconds and cause an aoe stun.

HES.

NOT

A

BURST

CASTER

ANYMORE

Stop comparing him to Annie. They aren’t designed to bring the same things to the table. He’s closer to Ashe/Sivir/Twitch/Corki than he is to Annie.

That build has him at ~4k Mana, that gives him a ~550 point of damage Q that he can shoot every 2 seconds. Can a similarly farmed Corki/Ashe/Sivir etc do 550 points of pre defense adjusted damage every 2 seconds?

That is the better comparison. And again it isn’t factoring in his Rune Prison (about 400 points of damage, 2 seconds of rooting every 9 seconds). How many of the other RANGED CARRIES even have CC? Let alone CC that also DOES DAMAGE?

I’m not saying Ryze is top tier, I’m just trying to get across what he brings to the table compared to the types of champions he should be compared too.

I know you say he’d be focused down, but Ryze has the same range as Corki and with this build (180ish armor 80ish mr, 3kish HP) he’s got a lot more survivability than your typical carry builds. If he’s getting rushed and focused down you’re gonna lose for the same reason you would have with any another RANGED DPS if they got rushed and focused down.

idrisz · 2011-03-02T15:58:33.000Z

That build has him at ~4k Mana, that gives him a ~550 point of damage Q that he can shoot every 2 seconds. Can a similarly farmed Corki/Ashe/Sivir etc do 550 points of pre defense adjusted damage every 2 seconds?

YES!!!, they auto attack more than once a second, that’s not even counting their skills or crits on auto attack from having an IE… that’s why Ryze is useless.

it’s so silly comparing Ryze to hard carry, because ryze is not even close to how good a hard carry is. the ryze you want is something like irelia or Xin, except less tanky, probably worse in term of damage, since Xin’s ult does AOE % damage while irelia’s ult does excellent aoe damage.

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Corki/?items=60,28,81,70&level=18

similar farmed corki, 523.849 DPS!!!

Anti-Bunny · 2011-03-02T15:59:21.000Z

No matter how you build your Nasus, always go Double Tiamat all the way.

JoshV · 2011-03-02T16:03:28.000Z

Anti-Bunny:

No matter how you build your Nasus, always go Double Tiamat all the way.

Gawd, you’re going to make me try it, just so I can feel how horrible it is. How big is the splash radius on Tiamat?

I mean, I can theoretically see that you could farm the crap out of a lane with tiamat and the spirit strike. But Tiamat is a bit expensive.

Anti-Bunny · 2011-03-02T16:08:03.000Z

JoshV:

Gawd, you’re going to make me try it, just so I can feel how horrible it is. How big is the splash radius on Tiamat?

Tiny. Just big enough to hit melee characters that are engaging you.

Banzai · 2011-03-02T16:18:18.000Z

Link to Roku going 13/0 with Ryze - he looks pretty powerful with the right mindset.

http://www.own3d.tv/video/77831/Runeterra__id_441__Archive__2011-02-25_08_48_14_-09_20_11

JoshV · 2011-03-02T16:22:22.000Z

Anti-Bunny:

Tiny. Just big enough to hit melee characters that are engaging you.

Does it hit the same guy twice? (Ie you swing at a target, they take melee damage, and then damage from each Tiamat?) Or is the tiamat splash only hit surrounding characters?

Lazy_Shiftless_Basta · 2011-03-02T16:25:23.000Z

JoshV:

Does it hit the same guy twice? (Ie you swing at a target, they take melee damage, and then damage from each Tiamat?) Or is the tiamat splash only hit surrounding characters?

Only surrounding characters. It would be insanely overpowered if each Tiamat added 50% damage to your main attack.

idrisz · 2011-03-02T16:42:09.000Z

I’m like watching that video, and roku is like I got +100 damage to my Q with his mana, except he didn’t said that his base damage is only 130… so at lvl 7 his Q does only 230 damage.

the only reason he won the game because they got a retarded teemo laning against him…

doran shield -> blood razor = WTF!!!

Sir_Digby · 2011-03-02T17:06:05.000Z

idrisz:

the only reason he won the game …

Is because he outplayed him/them?
Frankly, the “the only reason why…” is a straw man argument, the only reason something happens is because something else caused it to happen, it’s bloody physics!

Back on topic, he showed how the new Ryze is viable, regardless of having a good start or not; i’ve seen lots of people with awesome farms for the first 25 minutes, effectively allowing them to gear up as they please, and still fail.

idrisz · 2011-03-02T17:12:19.000Z

That’s the whole reason why he won.

He laned against a shitty teemo who fed him.

Not because he played a better champion, or even a viable champion.

He could have gone 12-0 with pretty much any caster the moment teemo showed up with shield and start to build blood razor. it doesn’t mean anything in the context of new ryze is a shitty champion compare to what rest of the casters are offering.

P.S…

Teemos sucks period if you don’t go pure AP nowadays.

Sir_Digby · 2011-03-02T17:29:09.000Z

Semantics.
Let me break it down as I see it; in a LoL game you either
a) feed the enemy
b) get fed
c) get support kills/farm
d) are a non-entity (no kills, no support, no farm, your average brain dead player or disconnected one)

The only way to judge the viability of a given champion is to compare him with others in specific situations;
can he farm well? can he survive 1on1 or is he a squishy? Does he scale well with level and in late game?

The video clearly doesn’t show him lagging behind, the fact that he got a dumb enemy on his lane is pointless because champion =/= player skill or even enemy player skill, what matters here, and this has been the topic for the past 2 pages, is if the new Ryze is viable and the answer is yes.
Does the new Ryze scale well? Yes.
Is the playstyle different from the former Ryze? Yes.
Is the gearing and skill priority different? Yes.

Again, being fed or lagging behind has nothing to do with a champions’ scalability. Compare a fed Ryze late game with a fed Zilean or fed Teemo: Ryze comes top, Zilean comes next but already lagging behind and Teemo (even AP) lags behind horribly.

You argument that “any fed caster, etc…” isn’t valid because, even equally fed, different champions scale better or worse.

So, in short, yes, Ryze is viable.

idrisz · 2011-03-02T17:35:50.000Z

Again, being fed or lagging behind has nothing to do with a champions’ scalability. Compare a fed Ryze late game with a fed Zilean or fed Teemo: Ryze comes top, Zilean comes next but already lagging behind and Teemo (even AP) lags behind horribly.

but you just compare ryze who suppose to be a sustain dps to zilean who is a support caster and teemo who is a support caster again…Oh yeah teemo actually out damage ryze in late game, because his Q does 600+, if he is AP his auto attack hits for 200+ with another 100 damage per second over 4 seconds, and with Lichbane(which is useless on Ryze), he does a 600+ auto attack every 2 seconds, all that without using his overpowered 1200 damage shroom(http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Teemo/?items=88,18,84,75,4&level=18).

does Ryze scale well compare to anivia, No

Does he scale well compare to Annie, No.

Does he scale well compare to Sion, Hell No.

Does he scale well compare to Mal’zahar, No.

Does He scale well compare to a well fed karthus… ERRR NO…

So, in short, yes, Ryze is viable only if you don’t have every other caster and doesn’t know how to play tank dps.

Anti-Bunny · 2011-03-02T18:05:57.000Z

None compare to Tiamat Nasus!

idrisz · 2011-03-02T18:06:56.000Z

Anti-Bunny:

None compare to Tiamat Nasus!

yes even a well fed nasus > ryze because Nasus’s Q does over 1k+ damage near late game.

Sir_Digby · 2011-03-02T18:10:22.000Z

idrisz:

yes even a well fed nasus > ryze because Nasus’s Q does over 1k+ damage near late game.

Yeah but can Nasus cast his Q every 2 seconds?
I’m not going to bother arguing this anymore, really.

Anti-Bunny · 2011-03-02T18:19:11.000Z

Sir Digby:

Yeah but can Nasus cast his Q every 2 seconds?
I’m not going to bother arguing this anymore, really.

2.5 seconds. :)

idrisz · 2011-03-02T18:20:47.000Z

Anti-Bunny:

2.5 seconds. :)

Yeah was just going to point out that nasus’s Q is on a 4s cd, with 40% it’s close to 2 seconds.

I’m not going to bother arguing this anymore, really.

Well, I’m taking my ball and going home too!!!

no really, off work.

l0lh3h3 · 2011-03-02T18:33:06.000Z

idrisz:

worst AP farmer, his bounce thingie barely does any damage if you go with mana stacking.

Btw it’s only Q & W that have the additional damage from your mana. That might be where your going wrong.

The only use Ryze’s E has is for the -mr.