In one game yesterday I midded as Cho against Sivir. I didn’t die and kept her on low health the entire game, but I couldn’t go in for a skill without being punished equally as much as she kited me back to her tower. By the end of the game she had something like 300 minion kills and was way outpacing me through the laning phase (it was 80 - 100 at one poit).
What am I meant to do in that situation? Ignore her and try to build my own hyperfarm character? Call for ganks like crazy (there was no jungloer, btw)? Splurge on health pots so I can soak up damage and keep her away from the creeps?
JoshV
6042
Ask to switch lanes? Cho isn’t really a mid lane carry. Granted you might get a gank if someone with a stun/snare/suppress can come in and flank, but long term your better off somewhere else where Cho can farm a little easier.
Yes, but for whatever reason I was there. Are melee champs just not able to mid effectively?
idrisz
6044
no, cho vs sivir, if she is good at timing her spellshield she can avoid you stomp, but if you are accurate at stomp, then silence her before stomp hits then it’s very possible for you to win in a harass war.
Cho’s actually one of the games best solo characters. Kinda needs to solo top though.
Pogo
6046
For some reason, “hearing” Therlun say this makes me think of:
Cho can be great in midlane, or any lane really. It is Sivir that no one can stop from farming. All she has to do is throw her boomerang blade and ricochet a few autoattacks to kill a wave. After she’s got a few items all she has to do is throw the boomerang blade and run away. There is nothing anyone can do to stop this even if they are kicking her ass in the lane, unless your team is destroying theirs so much that you can have people constantly helping you kill her under their tower. The upside is that Sivir is significantly less dangerous in a direct fight than most other ranged carries with that kind of farm.
Melee champs don’t mid so well because mid lane is too short to chase the enemy away from creeps entirely and most can’t harass/take getting harassed as well. Cho is one of the exceptions.
Yeah, this was a good sivir, who spell shielded every q I threw at her. It was quite annoying!
How do I build a mid-farm Cho? Guardian angel and then go crazy on AP?
You build Cho like Cho. He farms where he pleases.
idrisz
6050
or just build tanky with armor, ignore her and just munch on your creeps.
auto attack her to make her back off.
They have nerfed Sivir’s Q Lazy, so that she can’t just mow waves down with it anymore (as fun as that was).
Yeah, that’s why I said you have to autoattack a few times. I played her last week against Vlad. She doesn’t have to really worry about the enemy champ too much to keep farming.
Pogo
6053
Cho doesn’t give a shit about being harassed, that’s why he’s fuckin’ Cho. It helps to have armor runes and some defense masteries, though. While he regains 34(+2.5/lvl) health from killing a minion, it’s not going to provide enough regen by itself to survive harassment. Doran’s Shield or a Regen Pendant at level 1 guarantees staying power.
But even then good players will harass Cho, and some may even kill him, so counter harass has to be more reliable than just Rupture. That’s why I max Scream over any other skill. Costs less mana (until level 3) and has nearly identical damage during the laning phase before you really get any AP:
Rupture: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 305 (+1 per ability power)
Scream: 80 / 130 / 180 / 240 / 300 (+0.7 per ability power)
The guides all say to max Q, and some guides say to max E. Want to know what I think? Fuck them, is what I think. Max W. Scream is guaranteed, un-dodgeable damage and 2-3 seconds of silence that someone can’t use an ability to slow/ignite/exhaust/ghost/flash you. Think of Rupture as the utility spell and Scream as the harass, not the other way around like common thinking. Rupture does not increase the amount that it slows someone with progressively higher levels. Rupture actually hits FEWER enemies in midgame teamfights or during laning ganks.
Honestly, I can’t imagine Sivir being anything but pathetic against a tank Cho. After getting a sapphire crystal item, Cho should have no problem clearing creep waves as fast as Sivir can push back, and those dinky ricochets aren’t doing shit.
I think you’re right Pogo. At lower levels I could quite easily hit both enemy champs in a lane with one Q. Now at level 20 they actually run away from the rumbles. :(
By the way, what runes do you use? I’m running cdr/level blues and mr/level yellows, and can’t afford reds or quints yet. I like the idea of cooldown reduction but in many games I get CDR from glacial heart or the book you build from meki pendant, and it seems wasteful to spend a runeset on it too.
EDIT: oh, and my starting items moved from dorans shield (back when I was level 10) to dorans ring (when I wanted to spam q more) to meki + 2 health pots (which give me the same mana as a ring with more health). Now you recommend I come full circle? Where do I get my mana regen from? Runes?
Oh yea completely true, they have just made it a little bit harder to do :)
Also as far as I was aware, you were always supposed to max W as Cho? With only one point in E early, maxing it last. Or at least that’s what I was always told when I started. But then this does go back to what I said before about the quality of Leaguecraft guides.
Chequers if you go down the defense tree picking up strength of spirit you can start with a Sapphire Crystal (to build towards that Catalyst your going to want/need) and it should give you all the health regen you need combined with your passive + 2 pots.
Hmm, I put 9 points into offense for the +15 magic pen, then my other points into utility to get the mana masteries there. I guess once I hit 30 and do a 9/9/12 split which would get all three, right?
Oh, I tend to run my Cho 9/21/0, relying on Mana Regen/18 runes in the late game and my passive during the laning phase. But I mean if your not 30 I really wouldn’t worry about masteries too much.
If you are having problems in lane though try grabbing that Catalyst I mentioned. It builds towards an item you want regardless of your Cho build (RoA for AP or BV for Tank) and gives you immense staying power in lane when combined with your passive.
Pogo
6059
I have MPen reds, Armor yellows, and MR/lvl blues. Not sure why you have MR/lvl yellows.
My mana regen from masteries and that’s it. I almost never run 21 points in any mastery tree, so I have the 9 in offense for magic pen, 9 in defense for armor/MR/dodge, 11 in Utility for regen. The point of being able to take that damage with armor runes is so that you can last hit to get the mana regen you need, and use W to counter harass and stake your territory, letting the enemy know that you’re not going to back off from last hitting creeps, and you’re not going to let them get close without getting screamed on.
In that respect, you can’t use scream to harass every time it’s on cooldown.
Ironically I rarely go Catalyst anymore, either. Another one of those areas that I don’t feel I need to follow the top guides. However, not having it does tend to kill staying power due to low mana unless I’m building a Glacial Shroud.
Morello’s Tome I never get on Cho. If I go AP it’s going to be with Abyssal Scepter, though Rylai’s is supposed to be good with crowd control due to Scream and Spikes.
Hmm, I get the implied criticism here is that I’m using too much mana in early game :-)
Is BV really better than FoN for Cho? He ends the game with so much health FoN’s passive should end up with much more utility in a teamfight, plus if you win it lets you regen all your health while pushing down their towers without having to B early. If the enemy team is fully magic-based I’ll get both, but otherwise I like FoN + guardian angel for my armour/MR.
