its like in Civ IV… you think you have the tech advanatage, or that you can culture bomb China, but your gold is near 0… China’s gold is rising and they too are working on getting those oil spots! Maybe its planned… you know… illuminati stuff…
etc
For the record, Chinese commies and Russian Soviet commies almost never got along in philosophy. Ever. The schism was so wide that when Che Guevara (Castro’s #2 man during the Cuban revolution) publicly sided with Mao and made statements about their communism as opposed to the USSR, Castro almost totally lost the support of the USSR.
Another major difference between Chi-com and Soviet-com is expansionism. The Chinese communists have barely hinted at expansionism in their entire 50-ish years. Now, it’s true that they want to reunite with Taiwan (which was only split off because of the communist revolution) and Tibet and other small areas that they believe are part of China, but they’ve never really been big on sending billions of dollars of military and propoganda aid to far reaches of the earth in support of “the revolution”.
Just as an FYI.
Personally, I believe that if some hardcore hardliners come into power there and do attack the US for whatever reason, it won’t be to subjugate. It will be to bomb us back to the stone age and give them an outside shot at being the most powerful nation on earth. But that’s totally just my opinion, and I haven’t kept up with Chinese politics much.
Just my opinion as well, but I think one key thing to keep in mind is that Chinese communism is nationalistic and racist: it’s all about the good and betterment of Chinese peasantry in particular, and not ideological in the sense of seeking justice etc. for the poor and downtrodden in general.
China also wants to spread communism
Wheee! It’s all about the commies!
Hey, Gideongamer, remind me again: which U.S. administration opened up China to American military technology and Foreign Military Sales?
You shouldn’t be reading the marketing literature. It just confuses you. And Newsmax as a source? Please.
People have been playing the “Russian SSM will destroy US carriers en masse!!11” card for the last 25 years. However, there’s a major problem with that:
What assets does China have to locate US carriers and provide a targeting solution to launch the missiles at the carriers? The Soviet Union had fleets of patrol aircraft. China… doesn’t.
In addition to that, there’s one easy method that the US can do – kill the shooter. We’ve got carrier air, a strong C4I network, and the ability to see the Sovremennys coming long before they’re in range, and take them out.
Is it? Who is the dictator?
It’s a Collectivist Leftist Communistic People’s Democracy of Love! :lol:
I believe this policy paper by Eric Idle sums up my position on Chinese Regional and World Hegemony. The title of the piece is also the central theme, which the author returns to throughout. (I apologize for lack of footnotes.)
The world today seems absolutely crackers.
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There are fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It’s depressing, and it’s senseless, and that’s why…
Intro: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
They
only come up to your knees,
Yet they’re always friendly and they’re ready to please.
Verse: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
There’s nine hundred million of them in the world today,
You’d better learn to like them, that’s what I say.
Chorus: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
They come from a long way overseas,
But they’re cute and they’re cuddly, and they’re ready to please.
Verse: I like chinese food,
The waiters never are rude,
Think of the many things they’ve done to impress,
There’s Maoism, Taoism, I Ching and chess.
Chorus: So I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their
yin and yang-ese.
Verse: I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught,
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.
Chorus: So I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they’re wise and they’re witty, and they’re ready to please.
Verse: (in Chinese)
Chorus: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine and lychees.
Chorus: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin and yang-ese.
Fade: I like Chinese,
I like Chinese…
It is a great day when, thanks to Gideongamer, those lyrics are only the second silliest thing posted to the thread.
Psst… (every sperm is sacred!)
Good Call.
How about satellites, airborne radar, sonar buoys, and GPS?
Aircraft carriers are quite difficult to hide.
That’s what they want you to believe…
[quote=“antlers”]
How about satellites, airborne radar, sonar buoys, and GPS?
Aircraft carriers are quite difficult to hide.[/quote]
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/moskit-specs.htm
Maximum effective range
48 nm (90 km)
65 nm (120 km) in 3M80E
some sources claim 250 kmWeight 4500 kg
The Harpoon has a range of 60nm, and can be carried by a carrier-based F/A-18, which has a range of 1800nm without refueling.
Having a nasty warhead doesn’t help if you can’t get close enough to use it. Even if the rumors of the sunburn having a range of 140ish nautical miles are true, I’d imagine it’d be pretty unbelievably hard to actually sneak that close to a carrier group without them noticing you and taking you out with air to sea missiles.
Edit : Even better, the P3 can carry two harpoons at a time, has a range of at least 2500 nautical miles, and a can be up in the air for hours.
The best I can find for a China is the SU-27K, and saw this :
Although it was exhibited with an inert 4,500 kg Kh-41 (3M80 Moskit: mosquito) anti-ship missile on the centerline, this considered as impracticable as an operational load.
…which China is still in the early stages of deployment…
airborne radar
Which the Chinese are just getting into, of which the only focus seems to be on anti-aircraft usage.
sonar buoys
The sonobuoys dropped by which aircraft that weren’t spotted by the aircraft carrier’s radar screen? Hrm.
and GPS?
How does GPS help you find aircraft carriers? More than that, the US has this big massive switch on the GPS system that says “no one gets to use it but us”.
And out of all this, the Chinese C4I capability is negligible. It does nothing to day that you’ve detected an aircraft carrier on a sonobuoy if you can’t get the information to a launching platform.
Is the SS-N-22 dangerous? Yes. Is it unbeatable? Not at all. Worst case scenario is a Pearl Harbor-style attack – with US forces contrained by ROE until not firing until fired upon. That would hurt. However, attacking first always gives you the initiative, no matter the weaponry.
More than that, the US has this big massive switch on the GPS system that says “no one gets to use it but us”
Which is one of the reasons why they’re really pissed off at the EU for Galileo
In the meantime we keep pumping money into China
As bago pointed out, who’s pumping money into whom?
They loaned another $177b to the US in the first half of 2003, and then I lost count. For comparison purposes, Americans paid ~$400b in personal income taxes during that period.
Now it’s estimated that one third of the Chinese economy is invested in US debt. They are thought to be partly responsible for keeping our interests rates nice and low.
I say we kiss their ass a little more.
You know what’s good for that? Crelm toothpaste with the miracle ingredient, Fraudulin!
Look dude:
The capitolistic cat has gotten out of the bag, and it is not going back in. Capitolism flourishes under free markets, which only work in free socioties.
While right now it may only have a tenious hold in china, it is growing fast. At some point it will be stronger then the red army (too much finical power in to many peoples hands) and that will be that.
China may be wise and know this is comming, and be planning on some kind of coup, like gunning down every Entrepenur in the country at some point. I really doubt this however.
In the long run they will have to become a much more open socioty (weather by choice or being beaten over the head by capitolistic forces) and once that happens, the US and China are no longer a threat to each other and in the long run may become allies.
However, at this time they do feel thretened because the world is starting to change around them. There are forces far beyond thier controll (and perhaps beyond thier comprehension) in play. They are scared and the only thing they know to do is build big millitary toys.
The idea that free markets only work is free societies is not well established to my mind. Don’t get too complacent about China.