The truth of this statement is matched only by its irrelevance to the topic under discussion.
So I’m going to be “that guy” and ask you to cite your sources that show an active genocide of Jews in the Arab world. As a Jew myself I’m wondering why nobody told me about it until now.
That’s a pretty broad category.
This article came out in April before the latest Gaza killings:
Here’s a video showing Israeli snipers using a Palestinian soccer player in what amounts to target practice.
Israel sure isn’t helping itself.
That’s a good historical perspective, @TheWombat, thanks for writing it up. Unfortunately, a lot of folks here in the US just don’t want to see the situation through anything other than a religious lens. They’ll condemn individual actions by the Israeli government, sure, but always come back to support for “God’s people.” I’m basing this off my experiences with family and friends in the conservative Christian community.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that it would fade away…there’s always plenty of room for religious argument and people willing to shout about it even in times of economic plenty. But I think what you’re getting at is that there would be less violence justified by religion, and I certainly agree with that. Take away poverty and desperation, and religious arguments turn into “which church/mosque/synagogue do I attend” instead of “shoot/blow up/conquer the non-believers.”
Good morning to you, too, sir! After you’ve drained the piss out of your cornflakes, I will point out that playingwithknives said peaceful coexistence “flies in the face of history,” which is, strictly speaking, inaccurate. There obviously has been coexistence between Jews and Muslims in recorded history. Not lately, true, but nobody sent me the memo that anything prior to the past 70 years is off-limits for discussion.
I apologize that my interest in historical detail is so offensive to you.
Clearly the Arab world has major issues. A terrible view of religion, massive povery caused by all the wealth being captured at the top, a history of terrible tactics including suicide bombers, the list goes on. This doesn’t excuse Israel from their war criminal nature. A few days ago they opened fire on a crowd and killed dozens and injured over a thousand. They are monsters. Both sides share blame but slaughtering innocent civilians with your military is far worse than anything the Palestinians or outside forces have done to them.
Israel is mentally ill. They have a persecution complex, a meglomania complex, and the will to act like war criminals. I would be so ashamed to be Israeli today.
Ethnic cleansing with the assumption that migrations and mass expulsions were pre-70s and the tail end is persecution.
Genocide is Hamas endgame.
Tunisia as an example.
The Jewish population of Tunisia, estimated at about 100,000 individuals in 1948, was only 1,500 in 2003, less than 0.1% of the total population. These Jews lived mainly in Tunis, with communities present in Djerba, Sfax, Sousse and Nabeul. As of 2011, 700 Jews were living in Tunis and 1,000 on the island of Djerba.
The graph looks very similar for Malmo, who down to what, a dozen Jews now?
There is no future for Jews in places with a Muslim majority outside of I imagine, US communities, as the US is the great integrationist culture.
And because of that I just spilled water out of my mouth and all over my monitor. Crap.
Really? I hold up the US as the example of the most successful integration of immigrants on the planet. In most cases by the 2nd gen they are as American as apples pie.
We’ve got our issues, but compared to everyone else we’re damned near Jesus on this.
Again, @playingwithknives, you’re using crazy terms. The term “ethnic cleansing” is associated with the Nazis and the Holocaust, and many real genocides since then like Eastern Timor, the Congo, etc. If someone decides to leave where they live and live somewhere else, it’s called migration.
Thought experiment. In 1948 a bunch of Jewish people displaced a bunch of Arabic Muslims and forced them into vile conditions for 70 years now. 70 years living in a camp. A camp where they are concentrated. A… ?
Do you think some of those Arab neighbors might have a sour view of the nation and by association the ethnic people who did this?
Israel has a right to exist because what other choice do we or they now have. But that state came at the expense of a permanent refugee camp and a bescon if hate in the world for Israel. That might not create great perceptions of Jewish population centers in the middle east. It’s not right or a justifiable position, everyone should judge their neighbors by their actions not their affiliations. But it gives you context for why Jewish people might want to leave Muslim supermajority countries and flock to a place they are not only welcomed, but constantly called to.
It’s immigration, not genocide. See the difference?
Edit:. That Guardian article you posted makes my point. You should actually read it. Hear the reasons why those people want to leave Tunisia. Israel offers them a better life in their eyes.
Forced migration is ethnic cleansing. When my sister in law was forced to move from Bosnia to Serbia it wasn’t “immigration”. No one transported them out at gunpoint, but it was damn well ethnic cleansing. It’s just as much about perception of safety and persecution too.
PWK knows exactly what he’s doing when he uses the loaded term “ethnic cleansing.” He specifically wants to sew muslim panic.
I use it because it because when an ethnicity has its population reduced to zero through persecution and oppression it’s an apt term.
and its not “immigration” those who left Germany pre-War were called refugees, not immigrants. The Ezidi who are still forced to leave are not “immigrants” either.
I’m still waiting on proof of this fantastical world where the Jewish minority live a life of peace and prosperity and freedom of religion and culture in a Muslim majority country.
Is he wrong though? Not historically or in an alternative reality where Israel never existed, this one we have here, where we live, where Israel has existed for decades, and where the Jewish / Muslim relationship has apparently been thoroughly poisoned?
On which Muslim majority countries are Jews and Muslims living together peacefully?
Maybe PWK is harsher on Muslims than he needs to be, but in this issue I don’t think he’s wrong.
I’m a Muslim apostate. I’m biased insofar as I would be executed by Hamas ahead of any Jews, that’s for sure. It’s why my sympathy for Salafists is non-existent. Fatah weren’t sending their youth to die.
Oh, and has anyone linked the pictures and statements from Hamas of the 30 or so Hamas paramilitaries that made up the 50+ deaths ? I bit of a different picture than painted at the beginning of the thread.
It’s not a competition. :D
But I find the Israel situation depressing, because I don’t see a way out that doesn’t pass through lots of bloodshed, enough blood to drown the hate on both sides. And probably loads of “neutrals”.
and my original post about Israel above wasn’t exactly glowing. It’s a gigantic clusterfuck but I’m brutally pragmatic about who won, and where the power and ability to change things lies and the realities of the ummah when it comes to Jews.