I guess I’m just surprised that anyone could read about the experiences of Armando’s friend and come away not thinking that those are real issues stemming from her asexuality. The fact that a non-asexual person might run into similar issues doesn’t change that. It’s like saying the Black Lives Matter movement is bullshit because white people get shot by police also. (A statement I strongly disagree with in case that is not obvious).
As for pansexuality, yeah, I tend to think of it as a noble philosophy more then a sexual identity but it’s a really cool philosophy so I’m okay if that’s how my daughter chooses to self-identify. She’s demonstrably bi-sexual so she’s not glomming into the movement for attention and she has lots of transgendered peers so her identification as pan-sexual let’s them know that she would be open to a relationship which is helpful in a practical level.
I do think there is something to what folks are saying about the gradations diffusing concerns for the shared issues the community faces and that it drives away people who feel, as many in this thread do, that it’s so confusing as to become ridiculous but personally I like having more awareness of people’s individual experiences and struggles and I want to live in a world where people are comfortable being exactly who they are openly and without judgement.
I do want to give props to @Rightbug for being an excellent parent and not just supporting his(?) daughter but also making a real effort to understand the context around the issues she’s struggling with. I have a few years yet before any of this becomes an issue with my kids, but I aspire to treat them similarly.
For instance, in the world of computer games there is an alphabet soup of MMORPG, cRPG, jRPG, ARPG, TBS, RTS, MOBA, 4X, FPS, F2P, CCG, etc.
Is it silly to have so many categories?
For some people, no doubt it is. For some of us, maybe that list is not long enough.
If someone in the former category barged into QT3 demanding that we use fewer labels for video games, I suspect nobody would actually expect him to learn correct terminology. He would simply be dismissed as a stodgy, cantankerous old coot.
It’s not a similar issue… it’s the same issue. A closer example would be saying that if a black person experiences racism and a person from Asia experiences racism, the second one can’t be called racism. I walked away thinking the people who want to fix someone with their dick or says someone is a cock-tease because they aren’t getting sex is just a bad person. I suspect they treat all women the same way. It’s not like a racist person who is going to treat white people one way and a minority another. You think the guy that wants to fix women with their cocks and calls someone who refuses to sleep with them a cock-tease treats anyone with a hole they wan to fill with any kind of respect?
Her initial experience, whether to tell someone or not, yeah that’s pretty unique and difficult for others to understand, and yeah that’s a hard choice. I don’t know how you would approach a relationship to let someone know no matter what it will be sexless.
I’m sorry if it came across as calling you out as that was not my intention and I did not intend to put words in your mouth or twist your meaning.
My brain is muddled today and I’ve had a brutal two weeks so congently verbalizing my thoughts on subjects of extend nuance and sensitivity is challenging. A better way of saying what I was attempting to convey is that a white person getting shot by the police does not diminish the importance of the black lives matter movement nor does it negate the experiences of minorities who have fatal encounters with police. They are more likely to have fatal encounters with police because they are minorities just as asexual people are more likely to have unpleasant experiences with assholes who feel they are entitled to sex. Which, in turn is not to minimum zen the experience of women who have unpleasant experiences with assholes who feel they are entitled to sex because that is also a very real and very serious issue.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we should never discount the issues and challenges that people face as a result of their identity. (And to be clear, I’m not saying you did that. It’s a general comment in the context of the conversation we are having about why or why not it is important to recognize the many nuanced distinctions regarding sexual preference and gender.)
For Armando’s friend, while her experience sucks, it’s not clear that she needs a constant, public label more than anyone else whose sexuality is not 100% bog standard. E.g. People with vaginismus, or ED, or STIs, or who are Leather Daddies, or who are infertile, or who have extremely low or extremely high sex drives, etc. etc. etc. It would be good if other people were aware and considerate of these things, and it would be good if other people did not treat them badly because of their particular sexuality, but none of these things need a top level acronym or to be codified into law.
However, I have to strongly disagree with all the “xir” hate here. The word sounds so neat, like you’re living in a Frank Herbert novel. “Xir, the Tarmagant Vanguard is breaking through the Western maser grid! What are you orders Xir?” Contrast the coolness of the word “xir” with the terribleness of “cis”, which let’s all admit it, sounds like you’re calling someone a sissy. If we are going to make up language it should at least be neat and enjoyable language.
But here is the thing about some of the groups, and this is kind of what I think @Timex is suggesting. I am not going to know someone is asexual… unless someone tells me they are. It’s not really a competition, so don’t read this as me trying to make it one, but a black person cannot walk into a room and not have everyone know… they’re black. A biracial person might have some people guessing, so it’s… iffy. The comparison is not the same.Unless the asexual person tells them up-front they’re asexual, they’re reacting to that person as a woman. That doesn’t negate the struggles nor does it dismiss it.
So I think you’re trying to appeal to me by using examples you think relate to me really well, and that’s kind of fair, but I can be empathetic without that and an ally and still see things a little differently than you would like me to.
I am not discounting any issue. I think I’ve said that a few times now, but let’s be clear. I am not discounting any challenges or issues for these groups. AND I understand within this larger group the struggles are different, which is why I am okay trying to separate them.
On a practical level, I like the gaming genre comparison because subtle distinctions can be useful, especially when dating!
And thank you Adam_B for the kind words. I lost my father this week and while he had a prickly exterior and kept his emotions close to the vest, he was a deeply compassionate and kind man and there I never had any doubt growing up that his love and support were unwavering and free from judgement. I hope that my kids will be the same.
I kinda hope at some point “we” as a society dont feel the need for such labels. Now obviously it is needed to combat discrimination but distilling any complex aspect of a person down to a letter is pretty much a fools errand, particularly one as fluid and changeable the world of sex/love.
In my experience the range of sexuality within say “straight” or “gay” is just massive, go ahead and see what individuals and couples enjoy on pornhub who are of your orientation I think you will find a lot of that stuff is just not attractive at ALL to you. There are even some weirdos out there who dont like to have sex in cosplay outfits like normal people, I know it sounds scrazy but there it is :)
By that I dont mean straight people are going to become gay or visa versa (although it happens) but I do mean that the range within these broad labels is just so large that it becomes almost Wittgenstienian (someone whose sexuality was equally complex) in its problems with language.
If we had to refer to ourselves as the MMOCJARPGTBSRTSMOBA4XFPSF2PCCG community instead of just “gamers”, then yes, it would be profoundly silly.
The LGBTBBQ++ thing is ridiculous because, as a potential list of every possibly sexuality, it has no inherent upper bound. Apparently the only group is doesn’t include is cisgendereds, so why not just get to the root of the matter and make an all-encompassing name based on that? “Anti-cis” or whatever more stylish-sounding Latin prefix someone can dredge up.
I mean… eventually every single sexual variant gets a letter. Fuck if “Ally” counts then it means… everyone?
That’s silly. Also let’s not forget this term primarily exists for political reasons. You can’t just group everyone with an atypical sexual orientation into one term. It stops making sense. The issues gay and trans people are dealing with are a magnitude greater than an asexual person. Yeah, dating as an asexual person probably sucks, but they’re not getting kicked out of bathroooms or killed for it. I’m fine with there being a term, but grouping it in with LGTB stuff is wonky.
No one is saying being asexual is a sin against God and that we need to keep those people from doing things or deny them rights. I get the desire to create a community of similar people and have terms and the like, but let’s narrow it up for dealing with society as a whole.
Yes. Though not that because holy shit would the bigots grab onto that one and run with it, but yes, something a person can actually say. Because when you say a letter, it becomes a word and once you get past 3 or 4 it is a sentence and as sentence inside a sentence makes even discussing anything a pain in the ass.
There’s a reason things with 4 letters tend to become “words”. You call the FBI, F-B-I, but NASA is Nasa because N-A-S-A is a fucking pain and no one will do it.
