LGBTQIA+: Issues and Discussion Thread

Do you know how long it took me to remember the LGBT part? There is no way I will remember all that.

And yet I suspect if you say down with your favorite rts from fifteen years ago you’d recall the keyboard shortcuts in five minutes flat. I have faith in your memory, old man!

Truth is I can never remember those either. I play most games in hard mode by default because I don’t bother trying to learn half the stuff my character can supposedly do.

I think that’s fundamentally it. I saw that acronym yesterday, and I have no idea what half of the additional letters meant.

I don’t really care either. As long as it’s between one, two, or whatever consenting adults? Be you. I won’t remember the acronym, and it certainly is quite unwieldy to have a string of ten unpronounceable characters. So perhaps instead of appending more letters, create another all encompassing term? One people can say and remember?

But I get Armando’s point, and it’s got merit. I know why people would want their specific identity recognized. But Timex isn’t wrong about some of the new ‘nonsense’ words. Xir or Xie being ones people use. Why? I get why people would be reluctant to use new words, manufactured whole cloth, like that. And when we’ve got people pushing back against the idea of non heterosexual marriages being validated by the state, it seems to be a bit of rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic. It seems like it might be more counterproductive than helpful.

They’re not wrong to want their identities out there, but in the abstract ‘Internet communications’ I don’t know it matters to remember them all. @SlainteMhath is right, it’s better to treat them well than to remember an unwieldy acronym. And if you knew one such person in real life? It’s probably a lot easier to remember that identities name. Otherwise LGBTQ is fine. And if someone gets upset that I don’t write whatever other letters? That seems a them problem.

Understood. But what you’re driving at shades toward “I want to be treated the same way as everyone else, while also still being acknowledged as special.” That’s not really how equality works.

Granted, we have a LONG way to go yet until we reach real equality even here in America. I’m one of those Star Trek dreamers who longs for the day when people of all races, religions and orientations can work together to achieve truly remarkable things and reach far beyond our planet. I’ll probably never live to see that happen, but then again, the past 40 years have seen some pretty big strides in acceptance and equality, even if the past 18 months seem to be a step backwards. All I can do is work to keep improving things in any small way I can, and welcome and accept with open arms anyone else who shares the same goals, regardless of what acronym they choose to represent themselves.

I think on some level it just strikes me as the kind of bullshit that my friends talked about in college when we were stoned. It’s just kind of bullshit.

And really, the folks who I see pushing this kind of crap always seem to be rich white kids, looking for some way to rebel. There are more important things to be worrying about.

I’m not saying that you can totally do whatever you want to do sexually. I’m absolutely cool with that. But demanding that other people recognize your nonsense words that you invented? I just don’t have time with that. It’s just a game you’re playing in your head. It doesn’t mean anything.

Other people have ACTUAL problems that we should be worried about.

I think if their biggest problem is that people like me and others here can’t remember what to call them then they are doing pretty good.

I listened to this episode the Allusionist postcast recently which helped me understand the perspectives a bit better.

Re: “I don’t see color” movement, I believe recent research shows that this is actually a harmful stance to take because it’s hard to detect unconscious biases at play and you can end up with biased outcomes in many “color-blind” scenarios. Best practice now seems to be more along the lines of 'acknowledge and ensure equity", which is a pretty fine line to walk.

Lesbian: Homosexual female
Gay: Homosexual male
Bisexual: Attracted to males and females
Transsexual: Birth genitalia don’t match identity
Questioning: Still working things out
Intersexual: Ambiguous genitalia
Asexual: Not interested in sex

It’s a lot of categories, but none of them are vague.

Why is this group included with the above?

If you are a male and are not attracted to anyone, are you straight or gay?

Who cares? I don’t mean that to be cruel or harsh or anything but really, who cares?

I get the person has questions, but what do they want from others, an acknowledgment of some type. I don’t get the problem. There are people of all persuasions out there who live out their lives without ever finding anyone. Should they have a label as well?

One thing that makes this harder to “sell” so to speak, at least to my mind, is that increasingly the people who identity with these alternate identities tend to also believe that these identities are constantly changing; a huge reason the word “queer” has become du jour rather than “LGBT” is because it “contains myriads” on every sliding scale.

So it’s not to much that one can be disrespectful or dismissive because of this but, otoh, outsiders should probably take it all pretty lightly and not be concerned about making things fixed or try to find some line in the sand.

Acknowledgement is irrelevant.

Imagine a form that asks you where you live. The only options are “East coast” or “West coast”. Are you comfortable with that? If so, then you can safely ignore LGBTQIA.

This is a categorization system devised by diagnosticians, programmers, or their ilk. So it’s naturally focused on edge cases and eliminating the possibility of “None of the above”. Spoiler: I like it, and the hypothetical form described above would ruin my day!

There are a few things on that list I am not fond of, but he presented the entire thing as negative… didn’t even goo point by point?

Apparently I’ve been missing the I. Intersex?

But here’s the thing… other than being gay or trans… none of that shit matters.

If you are gay or trans, then societal discrimination against you means you are either discriminated against, or you have to alter your behavior in public to hide your nature. It has an actual impact on your life.

For “Questioning” or “intersexual” or “asexual”? Yeah, no one gives a shit. It doesn’t matter. No one gives a crap if you are questioning your sexuality, or don’t like sex. No one’s gonna beat you up in public for… what… not having sex with people?

It’s not the same thing as being gay or black, because it’s not an issue unless you MAKE it an issue.

All words started out that way. Current languages and vocabularies weren’t born complete, out of nothing. When something new appears, a new device, a new idea, new words are created to describe them. That’s a thing that exist, as it were.

Yeah, but that argument is a bit over the top, since most new terms for new ideas and things tend to be made up of similar patterns to existing words, and/or combining existing words and roots in new ways. That way, they hint at what they mean even if you’ve not heard the exact term before.

And I still wonder who should be the gatekeeper of what terms we may use to define ourselves?

You can call yourself whatever you want, and it’s generally not going to matter to anyone.

Now, if you start demanding that things like government form have special shit for your made up word? Ya, no, not really worth the trouble. If you demand that I use your made up pronoun? Ya, probably not gonna happen.

There’s one other issue here: IMO that’s too many letters for most people to easily remember. I understand the issue with recognition and not treating people as disposable or ignorable but there is an issue of communication here: a label that is used by the mass of people needs to be something that people can remember easily.

Part of the problem might be that the terminology has changed a lot in a short span of time. If one single acronym became commonly used for years, that would probably make it easier to remember. Although I can’t really think of any commonly used acronyms with that many distinct elements (7) off the top of my head.

You mean not being discriminated against except for people on forums saying that their thing isn’t a thing that actually exists?